D&D 5E Is Tasha's More or Less The Universal Standard?

[ECMO3]

But that's why some people don't like it. And there's plenty of powergamer videos on YouTube these days.

Sure some people, but how many? We've been playing with Tasha's for a while and I've only been at a table with one custom. It is me and I took it for thematic reasons as much as anything else (half Ogre) and she started with only a +2 in strength, taking the Fey touched feat and wisdom for her feat. I could have got the same ability scores and comparable abilities (1 1st level spell, 1 2nd level spell and darkvision) with other races.

Moreover It takes 9 points plus a half feat to get there. That means few options and I don't think someone for example with an 18 strength and tavern brawler or crusher is automatically more powerful at 1st level than someone with a 16 and PAM.

Then when you get a couple ASIs it is a moot point anyway.

 

[Maxperson]

worse (if I rwmwber right) you need to simulacrum a god, so 8th level spell

Not Simulacrum. It used this spell. Ice Assassin – Spell – D&D Tools

I'll pull out the relevant parts.

"An ice assassin spell creates a living, breathing creature that is a near-perfect duplicate of an existing creature."
"The ice assassin possesses all the skills, abilities, and memories possessed by the original"
"The ice assassin is under your absolute command."

So it targets a god, which in 3.5 were listed as creatures.

And from Pun-Pun

"Pun-Pun has the Ice Assassin spell as a spell-like ability at-will. He uses it to copy an arbitrarily high number of gods. Pun-Pun then commands a god clone to make him a proxy. This makes Pun-Pun a rank 1 demigod. Pun-Pun then makes another creature (Lokiyn, the originator of the trick, used squirrels) a proxy. This lowers Pun-Pun to divine rank 0. Pun-Pun then orders another ice assassin god to make him a proxy. At divine rank 1 again, Pun-Pun invests another squirrel with a divine rank. Pun-Pun repeats this process a NI number of times.

Then, he uses a standard action to recall each divine rank back from the squirrels. A NI number of squirrels with 1 divine rank invested equals a NI number of divine ranks recalled and gained by Pun-Pun. This gives Pun-Pun a NI divine rank.

Since Salient Divine Abilities are based on divine rank, Pun-Pun has a NI number of salient divine abilities. (That is at least all of the ones in the book and includes the awesome Alter Reality.)"

The problem is that 9th level spells, even Wish, can't make something or someone a god. It's not that powerful.

 

[Parmandur]

Well the racial rules are strictly better than the phb plus custom lineage option.

Throw in two overpowered archetypes and a high power level on the feats, other archetypes and class variant options (I'll give the Beastmaster a pass it needed it) and yeah it's a bit.

How are the Race rules from Tasha's better? How do you think they made thenRaces in the original PHB? The WotC team has said in the past that there iss no balance difference between the different Abilities, a +2 is the same value in their balance calculations no matter where it goes.

 

[Zardnaar]

How are the Race rules from Tasha's better? How do you think they made thenRaces in the original PHB? The WotC team has said in the past that there iss no balance difference between the different Abilities, a +2 is the same value in their balance calculations no matter where it goes.

The floating ASIs and ability to swap weapons out is strictly better that the phb standard. It's pure power creep.

There's no drawback they didn't rewrite the races to account for it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sure some people, but how many? We've been playing with Tasha's for a while and I've only been at a table with one custom. It is me and I took it for thematic reasons as much as anything else (half Ogre) and she started with only a +2 in strength, taking the Fey touched feat and wisdom for her feat. I could have got the same ability scores and comparable abilities (1 1st level spell, 1 2nd level spell and darkvision) with other races.

Moreover It takes 9 points plus a half feat to get there. That means few options and I don't think someone for example with an 18 strength and tavern brawler or crusher is automatically more powerful at 1st level than someone with a 16 and PAM.

Then when you get a couple ASIs it is a moot point anyway.

Primarily benefits spellcasters. You can't get an 18 under point buy or default array level 1. Variant human doesn't get a +2, every other race doesn't get a bonus feat.

Fey and shadow touched enable it. Having 20 primary spellcasting stat is a lot better at level 4 vs 8.

 

[Parmandur]

The floating ASIs and ability to swap weapons out is strictly better that the phb standard. It's pure power creep.

There's no drawback they didn't rewrite the races to account for it.

The different Attributes are value neutral: there is no balance factor to whether a +2 is for Constitution or Intelligence. Years prior to Tasha's, Crawford and Mearls had already said the difference was flavor and not balance. Samd with the Proficiencies involved.

That is not power creep, because it isn't even better in any real way.

 

[Parmandur]

Primarily benefits spellcasters. You can't get an 18 under point buy or default array level 1. Variant human doesn't get a +2, every other race doesn't get a bonus feat.

Fey and shadow touched enable it. Having 20 primary spellcasting stat is a lot better at level 4 vs 8.

The rule assumption for balance is rolling, it really doesn't make a difference.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The different Attributes are value neutral: there is no balance factor to whether a +2 is for Constitution or Intelligence. Years prior to Tasha's, Crawford and Mearls had already said the difference was flavor and not balance. Samd with the Proficiencies involved.

That is not power creep, because it isn't even better in any real way.

Also, ignoring the designers for the moment, how is a +2 charisma wood elf warlock more powerful than a phb tiefling warlock? They aren't.

The power level of the game is about the same as it was in 2014, except perhaps a higher floor. That isn't power creep, by any useful definition.

Well the racial rules are strictly better than the phb plus custom lineage option.

Not really.

Throw in two overpowered archetypes and a high power level on the feats, other archetypes and class variant options (I'll give the Beastmaster a pass it needed it) and yeah it's a bit.

Has anyone around here ever actually explained what is "overpowered" or "broken" about any of the archetypes in Tasha's?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It just seems like a pattern recognition bias of some kind, to me. When they addressed mechanical problems with new options in the past (mostly, in 3.5), they broke the game. Because of that, people are primed to see imbalance in new options, especially new options that address mechanical problems, make the game more user-friendly, or otherwise improve anything on any level.

 

[Zardnaar]

Also, ignoring the designers for the moment, how is a +2 charisma wood elf warlock more powerful than a phb tiefling warlock? They aren't.

The power level of the game is about the same as it was in 2014, except perhaps a higher floor. That isn't power creep, by any useful definition.

Not really.

Has anyone around here ever actually explained what is "overpowered" or "broken" about any of the archetypes in Tasha's?

Irrelevant the racial options alone in Tasha's is power creep. Throw in twilight cleric and variant class abilities it's all power creep. That's undeniable.

I'm not comparing it to 3.5 all by itself it's power creep. A d 5E is already tubed into easy mode and has been since 2014.

By that the monsters are laughably easy for the most part relative to their CR (with the occasional stinker).

Inlinevtashas is a key component of various powergsmer builds some do say you need to convince your DM to allow it though.

You may like the power creep or not but it's there. That's just the optional features it excludes the archetypes low. Most of them while tuned high are probably fine with the exception of the two clerics. Same with the feats and the fixed Beastmaster is also fine.

I'm probably not gonna allow the two clerics, custom lineage or the racial swap stuff and I'll have to look at the class swap stuff individually.