D&D 5E Buffing monks: with simple changes.

[Garthanos]

That’s not a question I even ask, and feels like a carryover from a previous edition. In 5e I don’t think in terms of striker, controller, etc., and I don’t believe the designers do, either.

Gygax introduced the concept of the Defender in 1e just not the word.... one can pretend not to notice them throughout D&D but its not very discerning.

 

[kapars]

A common milestone for effective damage is the Warlock Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Hex combination. At level 11 this yields 42 points of damage not modified for accuracy. Most Monks can get to about 38 and that’s with spending 1 Ki per for Flurry of Blows each turn. Once Ki is spent they fall to 32.5. Kensei and Astral Self can spend Ki to squeak over to 42.5 while they have Ki to spare.

Mercy is unique in that it can get to 45.5 at 16 WIS due to how their level 11 ability and hand of Harm works. They get to inflict a debuff and can sustain this for 11 turns per short rest. They also have a healing ability that can help others and bonus skills that synergies with the important ability scores. I think they are the benchmark one should aim for when homebrewing and you don’t see as many complaints about their performance.

Given that they add about raw 7.5 damage to the Monks output that gives you an indicator how much help the class needs in its Striking role. Their efficiency with Ki also suggests that the sub-class should either add abilities that cost no Ki, X uses without Ki or modify existing Ki based abilities like Flurry of blows.

The Sun Soul as home brew example would benefit from having Radiant Sun Bolt work like Martial Arts (qualify for BA attack without Ki) but allow 1 Ki to be spent to add Martial Arts + WIS radiant damage and improve to inflict Blinded at Level 6. They would do this as part of Flurry at 11 instead of the garbage they get. They’re already sacrificing damage to use Radiant Sun bolt but Blindness is debilitating enough to likely require a saving throw so I’d say that needs a CON save - unless the hit was a critical hit. They also get the defense of being at range.

I’m not saying every sub-class should work like Mercy but homebrewing off Mercy may be the best guideline until the designers do something to the base class.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Every .... single .... time .... I see this title, I read it as .... BUFF MONKS.

And I'm all like ....

Yes?

 

[kapars]

I think your experience is non-standard, judging by the fact that there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same kind of dissatisfaction with the monk as there has been with the ranger and sorcerer. In fact, the elemental monk stands out as the only subclass that people who aren't into CharOp forum discussions rag on, IME.

It certainly doesn't match any experience I've had in my own games, or watching other people's games.

hell, I rarely use stun with my Eberron monk. He's collected several ways to stack damage onto every attack over the 10 levels he's seen, so he focuses on dealing damage, harrying enemies the other's can't get to as easily, and doing things like teleporting in with blessing of the raven queen (30ft teleport, resist all damage until start of next turn), patient defense, cobalt soul counter attack when someone misses, and 2+ enemies are tied up trying to mess with him.

I play on a Westmarches with 1000s of players on it. It’s the least frequently played class and while those (30 odd I think) that play it enjoy it for its flavor I promise you that each and every one of us wishes for more HP, more Ki and less restrictive mechanics for armor, multi-classing etc. I think that’s a meaningful enough sample size to suggest help is needed.

 

[jayoungr]

1. increase hit die to d10. d8 feels a little low for melee class with low armor.

As a note from actual experience, I've played a Drunken Master monk up to level 13. The hitpoints haven't been a huge problem for me because of the subclass feature giving me a free disengage with Flurry of Blows. This generally allows me to be out of melee range by the time whatever I'm hitting might want to hit back.

 

[Undrave]

I think your experience is non-standard, judging by the fact that there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same kind of dissatisfaction with the monk as there has been with the ranger and sorcerer. In fact, the elemental monk stands out as the only subclass that people who aren't into CharOp forum discussions rag on, IME.

It certainly doesn't match any experience I've had in my own games, or watching other people's games.

hell, I rarely use stun with my Eberron monk. He's collected several ways to stack damage onto every attack over the 10 levels he's seen, so he focuses on dealing damage, harrying enemies the other's can't get to as easily, and doing things like teleporting in with blessing of the raven queen (30ft teleport, resist all damage until start of next turn), patient defense, cobalt soul counter attack when someone misses, and 2+ enemies are tied up trying to mess with him.

My experience is that the Monk has a bunch of cool stuff it can do (Stunning Strike and your spell-like subclass ability) but not the ressources to do them often enough. The Monk keeps having to spend Ki to catch up to what other characters do at will and when you run out of Ki you're pretty much the worst character in the party. All the while having to build for MAD if they want any good results. And having bad HP for a melee class.

I'm sorry but Flurry of Blow is not good enough to be worth 1 Ki, and the Rogue can disengage as a bonus action so why not the Monk?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'm sorry but Flurry of Blow is not good enough to be worth 1 Ki,

What if it was free? Would it break anything if monks could just always and indefinitely do it?

 

[Undrave]

What if it was free? Would it break anything if monks could just always and indefinitely do it?

I'd keep the conditions of needing to attack with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, but other wise? Nah. I don't think it's any better than Sneak Attack and the Rogue can do it all day long as long as the conditions are met.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'd keep the conditions of needing to attack with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, but other wise? Nah. I don't think it's any better than Sneak Attack and the Rogue can do it all day long as long as the conditions are met.

Yep, agreed. Though then I would wonder if the current ki pool would be too large with not having to spend it on the flurry?

 

[Undrave]

Yep, agreed. Though then I would wonder if the current ki pool would be too large with not having to spend it on the flurry?

Nah. The issue would be more of a lack of action economy to spend your ki. It might actually be better if Flurry of Blow was just an extra unarmed attack as part of the attack action so long as you use a Monk Weapon/Unarmed Strike. Then you could spend your Ki on your bonus action stuff if you don't use the Martial Arts bonus action (which I would keep in this situation). By freeing the Ki and Bonus Action I think the defensive options would see more use. Also put HD at D10.