D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[Vaalingrade]

They come out the same in the wash.

Actually doing things with some sort of tactical meaning is going to take a LOT of bleach to come out the same as being a stabbot.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Though as @Mort says, much of the ultimate solution is actually to build more dynamic combat scenes, where "just attacking" isn't the optimal approach.

Building a dynamic combat system is going to come up against the same resistance was getting over the resource minigame addiction. Tradition! The ultimate poison.

 

[payn]

Building a dynamic combat system is going to come up against the same resistance was getting over the resource minigame addiction. Tradition! The ultimate poison.

 

[delericho]

Building a dynamic combat system is going to come up against the same resistance was getting over the resource minigame addiction. Tradition! The ultimate poison.

They could make it an optional subsystem, so people can opt-in.

Indeed, one could envisage a game with lots of modular add ons - the tactical combat module, the detailed exploration module, etc. That would allow you to have your cake and eat it also. Maybe someone should pitch the idea of a modular game to WotC?

 

[Shardstone]

After reading all this, I just ask myself — why not just make fewer powers based on charges, and more powers at will?

Second Wind, Rage, Bardic Inspiration (one creature can only have one die at a time type thin), Flurry of Blows, etc? This would increase the overall power of the game, but I really don't think it'd increase it that much, and I don't see why some of these things are limited anyway other than just to be limited. Does it really matter if the Monk can always flurry of blows, or if the Fighter can gain around 15 temp HP on demand? Probably in very early levels, but you could adjust the balance of the game to incorporate this.

I just feel, personally, that it seems almost illogical to try and make more and more cooldowns, creating more and more things to keep track of, when you could just assume the Barbarian will always be able to go into a rage, the Fighter will always have second wind, both of which you could make an action (or replace an attack with them, fun!) if you are concerned on balance.

I guess maybe this might seem too superpowerish, but if everyone is playing 1-2 combats a day, there is no real fundamental difference in terms of gameplay X narrative. Always having a Rage ready is, imo, no different than having an infinite number of rages to use.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Maybe someone should pitch the idea of a modular game to WotC?

Here we go again! ~80's sitcom ending track~

 

[Vaalingrade]

I guess maybe this might seem too superpowerish, but if everyone is playing 1-2 combats a day, there is no real fundamental difference in terms of gameplay X narrative. Always having a Rage ready is, imo, no different than having an infinite number of rages to use.

That would require designing with an encounter schedule that doesn't waste the players' time... I mean 'provide challenge through attrition'.

 

[Shardstone]

That would require designing with an encounter schedule that doesn't waste the players' time... I mean 'provide challenge through attrition'.

Correct, this would move the game to a "however many encounters you want" per day, which I much prefer.

Ultimately though, I will say that the 5 min work day has not been a problem for me in my short 7 years of DMing. While the game is unapologetically designed around attrition-based combat, I haven't ever had an issue just not doing that. I find that if I want my players to stress, even ignoring the suite of narrative tools you could use to do this, some creative thinking on my part can usually make any encounter seem suddenly dangerous.

Have I had problems with a sudden nova, etc? Yes. But idk, its so rare that it happens, and so rarely does the players being pushed to the extreme in combat really matter for the games/stories we are playing that I just never actually encountered this issue in such a way so that it gave me pause.

I would really like to know what other DMs are finding so harmful about the "5 min workday." Even reading this thread, and others like it, I just don't see where it becomes a problem. Surely if you're running a lot of dungeons, then you're probably going to have 5-8 encounters in that dungeon regardless. And if you're running a city or wilderness adventure, being pushed to the brink by combat isn't something I would expect the entire time, or to be the only thing that has the players stressed. And, if your table really loves D&D combat and only plays it for that, I would think 5E's boring monster design to be the problem, and not the nature of the resource game.

 

[tetrasodium]

I would really like to know what other DMs are finding so harmful about the "5 min workday." Even reading this thread, and others like it, I just don't see where it becomes a problem. Surely if you're running a lot of dungeons, then you're probably going to have 5-8 encounters in that dungeon regardless. And if you're running a city or wilderness adventure, being pushed to the brink by combat isn't something I would expect the entire time, or to be the only thing that has the players stressed. And, if your table really loves D&D combat and only plays it for that, I would think 5E's boring monster design to be the problem, and not the nature of the resource game.

It's changed over the editions.:

• Back in 3.x certain classes had dramatically greater ability to nova (ie CoDzilla, glass cannon casters, etc). This resulted in those classses taking a much larger share of the spotlight to nova>rest>repeat & forced the GM to dole out treasure that would bring the other classes up or resort to MAD type situations with SR & such that woulds impact classes with reduced nova capability. The "god wizard"* & similar was a bit of an exception simply because they were more dependent on situations lining up to spell selection & the fact that them going nova meant that others in the party were the ones being dialed up to 11. All of that was tempered by the fact that recovery was a nontrivial hurdle that could be dangerous enough that the nova>rest>repeat pattern could trivially be interrupted in ways that resulted in the party falling behind where they were when they started the rest.
• In 5e resting is no longer a risk & it's gone from players saying "can we take a rest" to players saying "we take a rest or you can shoot the shaggy dog" even if they need to say that two or three times. The problem is exacerbated because the simplicity at all costs & magic items are "optional" makes item based spotlight adjusting tools much more difficult to deploy with a much lower bar for leveraging those items into new & bigger problems. You can top all of that off by having classes on two different rest cycle needs so the GM has a higher bar to address the problem and certain classes (ie warlock & others) are almost designed explicitly to abuse the 5mwd nova>short rest>repeat/nova>nova>short rest>repeat in ways that steal the ability for long rest classes to ever enjoy the fruits of their larger tank tied to long rests.

* A specific style of building that focused on buff/debuff & control spells in ways that made their allies awesome & nerfed the stew out of their foes

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Compared to, just making a basic attack with a melee weapon turn after turn?

Yes.