D&D 5E Are Per Rest Resources a Hindrance?

[Li Shenron]

this encourages them to nova and then force a rest

I haven't seen that happen in my games. If you go nova, the rest of the party will protect you but forces you to keep going.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think it's long been established that the rest frequency rules from the DMG are broken and have no relevance to actual play

The only long established fact is that what doesn't work for someone works for someone else.

If it REALLY was broken for a large part of the gamers, it would not have lasted 8 years.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And it's not really accurate anyway (that fighters will shine after others have blown their resources).

With what?

Fighters have nothing interesting to do. Shining is not being boring longer than others can act at all.

 

[Mort]

With what?

Fighters have nothing interesting to do. Shining is not being boring longer than others can act at all.

I don't think that's accurate. Fighters can do a surprising amount of damage (easily more than barbarians and they can keep up with paladins, though it takes the right build) and can decently protect those around them from taking as much damage as they otherwise would (though again, takes the right build).

Now, It's a shame (IMO) that fighters are nowhere near as good at protection and being sticky as they were in 4e and I do wish that had been ramped up and/or will be ramped up.

Is it as "interesting" as the world altering effects the wizard can produce as levels increase? I'd say not. And do I wish there were more out of combat options for fighters (that aren't just options available to everyone else), sure.

But considering how much D&D revolves around combat, fighters do have interesting and effective ways of contributing in that Tier.

 

[Undrave]

The problem with "PB uses per day" is that it encourages PCs to nova and then rest - the 15 minute adventuring day. Though the current approach, where classes have a mix of approaches but the big casters are almost all per day is even worse - this encourages them to nova and then force a rest, which not only gives the 15min day but also enhances the imbalances between the classes.

What is ideally needed is for all classes to have a mix of powers that refresh at different rates, plus strong advice for the DM that the ability to rest should usually be easy but should sometimes be limited in various ways.

But what is also needed is a mechanism that encourages PCs to press on for "one more encounter" - whether that is a gradual ratcheting up of XP awards as they increase the number of encounters per day, or the use of some sort of escalation die that makes their powers stronger as they go on, or even some powers that only become available after a number of encounters. I'm not sure of the details, but building something like that in would help reduce that 15-min day problem.

Yeah we just need various ratio of daily/short rest (so grognards don't complain the classes are 'all the same' just because they got the same clock...)

Powers that manifest the more exhausted you are could be interesting. The Sorcerer in playlets had a mechanic where their bloodline manifested more strongly the more they spent Sorcery Point. Like Dragon Sorcerers getting wings and stuff. That could be a good motivator to daily casters to keep them going.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If it REALLY was broken for a large part of the gamers, it would not have lasted 8 years.

citation needed... just because people continue to play the overall game doesn't mean that they don't dislike (or in TTRPG we can change it) it and it shouldn't be changed...

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't think that's accurate. Fighters can do a surprising amount of damage (easily more than barbarians and they can keep up with paladins, though it takes the right build) and can decently protect those around them from taking as much damage as they otherwise would (though again, takes the right build).

Now, It's a shame (IMO) that fighters are nowhere near as good at protection and being sticky as they were in 4e and I do wish that had been ramped up and/or will be ramped up.

Is it as "interesting" as the world altering effects the wizard can produce as levels increase? I'd say not. And do I wish there were more out of combat options for fighters (that aren't just options available to everyone else), sure.

But considering how much D&D revolves around combat, fighters do have interesting and effective ways of contributing in that Tier.

Just doing damage is not interesting.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Just doing damage is not interesting.

but I have one button and I push button good... better then half fights that other classes push same button...

 

[Mort]

Just doing damage is not interesting.

There's a bit more to what I wrote. But seeing as damage is the fighter's schtick and has ALWAYS been the fighters schtick (with a bit of a break for early 4e where the shtick became protection with a minor in damage) maybe don't play fighters?

There are lots of other options and since fighters are consistently voted as the most popular class - plenty of people want to play them as is.

 

[Vaalingrade]

There's a bit more to what I wrote. But seeing as damage is the fighter's schtick and has ALWAYS been the fighters schtick (with a bit of a break for early 4e where the shtick became protection with a minor in damage) maybe don't play fighters?

Or... we could have a fighter that has things to do.

There are lots of other options and since fighters are consistently voted as the most popular class - plenty of people want to play them as is.

'Most popular' because people get forced to play it as the starter class, which is also part of the reason they're not allowed to be good. Because we act like people who never played D&D before can't operate anything more complicated than swinging a sharp stick. Someone even suggested they might be confused about rage for god's sake.