D&D 5E Can you use dueling and TWF at the same time? I think you can RAW.

[ECMO3]

double post

 

[ECMO3]

Uses bonus action to throw dagger per TWF.

This is where you have the example wrong. Character uses an ACTION to throw the dagger, NOT a bonus action. Throwing the dagger is his main attack action.

He then uses a bonus action to attack with the light melee weapon which DOES meet the requirement for TWF (he made the attack action with a light weapon with a weapon in another hand). It also meets the requirement for dueling as he is only holding one weapon when he makes this bonus action attack.

 

[ECMO3]

You do realise what you just said makes no sense? If you are only holding one weapon you are not holding a weapon in the other hand. ergo you do not qualify for a bonus action.

It says explicitly in the description you can throw either weapon. You are holding a weapon in the both hand when you make the attack action you meet the requirements.

Now if you threw the dagger and then drew another you would not meet the requirements, you need to have a light weapon in each hand when you make the attack action.

 

[ECMO3]

No, it's not tied to when you take the attack action. As soon as you drop your second weapon you cease to qualify for a bonus action.

This is not true. Read the underlined portions:

"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it."

It says right there in the description that I can throw one weapon and attack with the other one using a bonus action.

 

[ECMO3]

At the point you take the attack action, you have two weapons equipped or you don't. A PC doesn't get multiple attack actions, they may may get multiple attacks using their attack action. The OP is conflating an attack with the attack action.

So you have two options:

1. You take the attack action with two weapons equipped. Because of this, you get a bonus attack.
2. You take the attack action with one weapon equipped. You get the +2 bonus from dueling.

The only way to get around this would be to use an action surge to get a bonus attack action. Which makes it even more pointless.

So to start with I am talking about the two weapon fighting mechanics (not the style just the action-boonus action sequence) and the dueling fighting style. It is not an either or proposition and I think you are the one conflating an attack with the attack action.

1. You take the attack action with two weapons equipped. Because of this, you get a bonus attack.
This is absolutely true. If you take the attack action with 2 light melee weapons equipped you qualify for TWF.

In the example I did this - I have a weapon in each hand and take the attack action to throw one of those weapons. I therefore qualify for TWF per the rules on TWF. As a bonus action I can throw the second weapon or I can attack with it in melee (assuming both had the light and thrown properties). In this case I am choosing to make a melee attack with it.

2. You take the attack action with one weapon equipped. You get the +2 bonus from dueling.
This is absolutely untrue. Using the attack action is not a requirement at all for the dueling fighting style RAW. Dueling says nothing at all about the attack action.

Dueling Fighting Style: "When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon."

If you have this fighting style you do +2 damage to an opponent with a weapon you are holding in one hand as long as you are not holding another weapon. This has nothing to do with attack action and applies to all damage with a weapon being held in one hand as long as you are holding no other weapons. You even get the dueling bonus on a reaction attack or on an attack with a haste action or on any attack you make with the weapon while only holding it.

 

[Baron Opal II]

This is where you have the example wrong. Character uses an ACTION to throw the dagger, NOT a bonus action. Throwing the dagger is his main attack action.

Ah, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.

He then uses a bonus action to attack with the light melee weapon which DOES meet the requirement for TWF (he made the attack action with a light weapon with a weapon in another hand). It also meets the requirement for dueling as he is only holding one weapon when he makes this bonus action attack.

But he can't, because he only has one weapon since he threw the other one away. You can't do two weapon fighting if you don't have two weapons. That must have been my source of confusion, since the only way he can get two attacks is to throw the dagger with his bonus action from TWF and then using his attack action with Dueling.

Two weapon fighting is for fighting with two weapons. Dueling is for fighting with one weapon. It's either/or; you can't benefit from both at the same time.

 

[James Gasik]

Ah, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.


But he can't, because he only has one weapon since he threw the other one away. You can't do two weapon fighting if you don't have two weapons. That must have been my source of confusion, since the only way he can get two attacks is to throw the dagger with his bonus action from TWF and then using his attack action with Dueling.

Two weapon fighting is for fighting with two weapons. Dueling is for fighting with one weapon. It's either/or; you can't benefit from both at the same time.

But the last sentence of two weapon fighting says you can use it to throw either of the equipped weapons (unless I'm missing your point of confusion). Thus throwing a dagger triggers the clause for the bonus action attack.

 

[Hriston]

Ah, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.


But he can't, because he only has one weapon since he threw the other one away. You can't do two weapon fighting if you don't have two weapons. That must have been my source of confusion, since the only way he can get two attacks is to throw the dagger with his bonus action from TWF and then using his attack action with Dueling.

Two weapon fighting is for fighting with two weapons. Dueling is for fighting with one weapon. It's either/or; you can't benefit from both at the same time.

No, if you're holding two light thrown weapons, you can throw both weapons with two-weapon fighting. That means I can throw the first weapon using the Attack action which qualifies me for a bonus action attack with the second weapon, which I can also throw.

(Ninja'd by @James Gasik.)

 

[Hriston]

Kudos to @ECMO3 for finding some rules minutiae that people will actually argue about in 2022! I never would have thought!

 

[Charlaquin]

You could actually get it for every attack for 2 turns if you both surprise an enemy and beat him in initiative,

No, a surprised creature still has a turn in the first round, it just can’t use actions on that turn (and can’t use reactions until after it.)