D&D General IS the 5 min work day a feature or a bug?

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't like such recharge mechanisms to be honest. I thought more along the line of: you get +1 to every d20 roll for each encounter after the last long rest or you get a pool of d4's that you can add to a single d20 roll per encounter. This pool starts at 0, recharges every encounter and you get one exra roll after each encounter.

could work as a modified escalation die from 13th age.

I like anysystem that says "if you push on a bit we will help you push on a bit not punish you for it."

 

[James Gasik]

I liked milestones, but they were an admittedly artificial construct. I once played under a DM who hated giving us long rests to get our dailies back. Then my roommate acquired Delver's Armor, which gave him +1 AC per milestone. You can probably see where this went.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I liked milestones, but they were an admittedly artificial construct. I once played under a DM who hated giving us long rests to get our dailies back. Then my roommate acquired Delver's Armor, which gave him +1 AC per milestone. You can probably see where this went.

I forgot that item... I may drop it into my next 5e game (+1 leather delver's armor)

 

[James Gasik]

I don't like such recharge mechanisms to be honest. I thought more along the line of: you get +1 to every d20 roll for each encounter after the last long rest or you get a pool of d4's that you can add to a single d20 roll per encounter. This pool starts at 0, recharges every encounter and you get one exra roll after each encounter.

I understand your feelings in this manner, but this is the exact reason why players want to rest often- they want to use their cool features again. Like if you have one fireball per day for some reason or another- figuring out when to use it and making sure you don't "waste" it is going to be a hassle, and then once it's gone, that's it, your cool trick is spent. Of course you're going to want to use it again, hence the urge to hole up somewhere to do so.

But if you could get it back by pressing on into the adventure at some point, well, that might remove the impetus for wanting to do this in the first place.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I liked milestones, but they were an admittedly artificial construct. I once played under a DM who hated giving us long rests to get our dailies back. Then my roommate acquired Delver's Armor, which gave him +1 AC per milestone. You can probably see where this went.

Towards good balance, because you have a two competing factors: additional AC vs recharging dailies.
Since I don't like stale combats I rather increase offense instead of defense.

 

[James Gasik]

Well that's one way to put it. Our DM got very frustrated with it before he finally relented.

 

[Helldritch]

yeah that is pretty close to how we do it... but if the DM puts +1 great sword, pearl of power, pearl of wisdom, + 1 heavy steel shield, and 3 wands in the game that has a fighter a rogue a cleric and a wizard... it isn't going to sit well with the rogue player that 7 items are being split between 3 players and he gets nothing...

this is what makes it look advasarial, cause you didn't put a generic ring of prot or cloak of prot in the rogue could use...

no wonder the rogue player doesn't care.

You keep only seeing the bad side.
This is an example of treasure. I have 6 players. So if we do like you and assume the worst, 3 players got nothing so bouhouuuuuuu? Come on. Think a bit further and stop taking the worst approach. Again, we are talking about a fringe case, a rare exception where a player absolutely do not care about the game. Why would I want to keep that player? Or why would my group.

 

[Helldritch]

and yet your suggested method was to punish the player until they changed play styles... not "talk to them like an adult"

One possibility do not make it the only way to go thing. Why are you dealing in absolute?

so after saying about how talking like an adult is the answer you fall back on bullying useing the game cause talking like an adult could be hard?

Hey do not go faster than the speed limit. If you do, do not be surprised if a police officer gives you a nice bill for doing it. There are consequences to your actions.

because it is

So you say. There are adversarial players. Not in groups mind you. But if there were, I would act like them. Either they change their way or they find an other table. No loss for me for sure.

aka use your power as the DM to adversarial force YOUR way of playing on a player that dares to enjoy the game different than you... and you above said you are doing it to avoid talking it out like adults...

If push comes to shove... And you keep saying My way. But it the TABLE'S way. A group is group and an individual is part of the group.

maybe you are not getting your point across, but so far it IS coming off as adversarial.

A last resort, you know that?

how can this possible be better than meeting in the middle?

Because we are already in the middle. If events go that far it means that one person simply does not want to give some ground.

then that isn't a veto... it is a vote.

My group has VETO power... aka we can stop something.

Ouch... This must allow for some pretty wild one way abusive decisions...

 

[James Gasik]

You keep only seeing the bad side.
This is an example of treasure. I have 6 players. So if we do like you and assume the worst, 3 players got nothing so bouhouuuuuuu? Come on. Think a bit further and stop taking the worst approach. Again, we are talking about a fringe case, a rare exception where a player absolutely do not care about the game. Why would I want to keep that player? Or why would my group.

Well exactly, but maybe you should just say "hey man, either show some interest or get out, you're ruining our vibe"?

I mean if you were trying for a carrot and stick approach, it apparently didn't work. I don't play at your table, and I'm sure this guy deserved his treatment. And it's easy from an outside perspective to say "that wasn't the best way to handle it"- we weren't there.

OTOH, some players just can't seem to fully engage, and are there to hang out with their friends. I have one of these (sorry Drew!) and I've tried everything to get him to show a little more interest in roleplaying or the storyline.

It never seems to stick, so I've just sighed and admitted to myself he's a "spectator", and let him be. He must be having some fun to keep showing up, and nobody has expressed a need to kick him.

 

[Helldritch]

Well exactly, but maybe you should just say "hey man, either show some interest or get out, you're ruining our vibe"?

I mean if you were trying for a carrot and stick approach, it apparently didn't work. I don't play at your table, and I'm sure this guy deserved his treatment. And it's easy from an outside perspective to say "that wasn't the best way to handle it"- we weren't there.

OTOH, some players just can't seem to fully engage, and are there to hang out with their friends. I have one of these (sorry Drew!) and I've tried everything to get him to show a little more interest in roleplaying or the storyline.

It never seems to stick, so I've just sighed and admitted to myself he's a "spectator", and let him be. He must be having some fun to keep showing up, and nobody has expressed a need to kick him.

And that is exactly what I am doing now. Haven't seen this kind of player in 3 decades.
In the end, it worked out. 40 years ago, I was barely 12... He is still a very good friend but RPGs are not his cup of tea. MTG on the other hand

And I understand the spectator side of things. I do make Friday Night Dungeon exhibits at our hobby store and a few regular come and then some others. A few are to ask questions on "how to" stuff and a few are there only for the fun of watching. There are even some parents that comes to watch to see what it is all about their teenager are talking about and we have a good chat after that. When they hear that I am a power engineer and that I play a "kid" game they are often dumbfounded and they take a whole new approach on how RPGs are working.

If I were truly the adversarial DM that some here are trying to make me appear, I would not do exhibits and I would not have groups that have been with me for 30+ years now. No adversarial DM can keep their players. But sometimes, being stern and holding your ground will be seen as adversarial when all you do is to stand up for what you believe.