• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E New Spellcasting Blocks for Monsters --- Why?!

Reynard

Legend
Maybe not in the traditional sense, but is there much of a difference here? It forces the party to have at least 1 character with access to Dispel Magic and that at least 1 of them has it available AND the spell slot(s) to go with it. Doesn't seem to give the players much choice.
I don't see it that way. it forces the PCs to get creative, and maybe retreat and reassess and build tactics off gained knowledge.

One thing that feels weird in a lot of these discussions is how it is assumed that the players know whatever information we, as GMs, are poo-pooing on WotC about. Ostensibly, the players don't know that information, and if they do, they are supposed to partition it.

So, the first time you try and take out the BBEG you hit a brick wall because you didn't know you needed X and have to retreat. GOOD.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Maybe not in the traditional sense, but is there much of a difference here? It forces the party to have at least 1 character with access to Dispel Magic and that at least 1 of them has it available AND the spell slot(s) to go with it. Doesn't seem to give the players much choice.
Only if they want to deal damage to him. Can they reduce his hit points instead? Trap him? Maybe poke out his eye and cut off his hand.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
This is a bad argument, and I really can't take you seriously when you make an argument like this. At this point, you're being defeatist just to be defeatist.
It is a perfectly valid argument. The fact you can't refute it is not my problem. (Or if you simply don't want to, which is fine of course.) 🤷‍♂️

I personally don't have issue that Vecna has a limited spell list, for I have run spellcasting monsters frequently and its easy to lose track in the frantic nature of combat.

My only real beef is the lack of 9th level spells (and I have not seen the statblock so if this is there I apologize, but I believe you have to have a beyond account to see it).

Just give me a "meteor swarm 2/day" or "Invulnerability: Vecna is immune to all damage until subject to a dispel magic: DC 20"....something like that.

As one of the ultimate magic casters, I want him to have a few more displays of "ultimate magic", even if its simple, I want it to be powerful.
Totally Agree! :)

I was going to post something along these lines when I got home from work. I mean, Vecna can teleport 30 feet (or whatever) all the time, but apparently can't actually teleport further unless the DM wants to add it to his statblock. Sort of pathetic IMO.

I mean, the gave Vecna some pretty weak 1/day spells IMO. Even an 17th-level Wizard has way more that what Vecna has. Sure, he has some cool new stuff, but at the very least write some fluff justifying it all:

Vecna has long forgotten many of the spells he knew in life, but over the eons has developed new and powerful abilities.

Finally, I also find it incredibly silly that Venca, of all creatures, is attacking with a DAGGER---even one as powerful as Afterthought. Honestly, it seems like an afterthought that they added it... ;)
 

Finally, I also find it incredibly silly that Venca, of all creatures, is attacking with a DAGGER---even one as powerful as Afterthought. Honestly, it seems like an afterthought that they added it... ;)
I don't like tying his damage calculation assumes he attacks with that dagger in melee... especially when you consider that he most likely wants to avoid melee
 


dave2008

Legend
I was going to post something along these lines when I got home from work. I mean, Vecna can teleport 30 feet (or whatever) all the time, but apparently can't actually teleport further unless the DM wants to add it to his statblock. Sort of pathetic IMO.
I posted a version for you:
EDIT: I see I already sent it to you - oh well!
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Vecna has spell slots if you want him to,. Here I updated him for you: Vecna the Archlich
Yeah, I saw it already and appreciate putting actual spells back in. However, I think with some of the changes you made, he would be higher than CR 26 (I could be wrong, I haven't done any calculations on it...).

BUT...

That is your Vecna, and he can cast because you added them back in. WotC's Vecna doesn't have them and can't. 🤷‍♂️

The decisions they made in changing this aspect of statblocks was simply a bad move IMO. It severely hampers such creatures because many DMs won't change the statblocks. I see it all the time. I just joined a new group who is learning the game and the guy who is DMing is making so many mistakes--but at least we're having fun. :)
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
So, what level spell do people think his action spell abilities would be? If I was wanting to assign them a level to give the spell casters a chance to counter or learn them, I think I would use the following.

Rotten Fate is just a powered up Finger of Death, I'm thinking 9th level though it might be 8th.

Flight of the Damned I feel is 6th level. It's basically a cone of cold that deals necrotic damage and applies the Frightened condition.

Vile Teleport is thunder step with psychic damage damage, slightly less damage. The heal I think I could leave as a feature of Vecna and so I'd put this spell at 3rd level.

Dread Counterspell looks like a 4th level spell based on which level of spells it automatically counters.

Fell Rebuke I'd put at the same level as vile teleport.
 

Erdric Dragin

Adventurer
The streamlined template means even as a noob DM I could pick up Vecna and run him and have a fun challenge. Then they give experienced DMs a way to make the encounter more complex by giving you the Book of Vile Darkness and a literal blank check to do whatever you want.

Noobs have a lot of issues running the old spellcasters. This new one is easier. I'm new to the game, not even a decade playing, and this spell block is easier to grok, understand, and use.

For the love of god, I wish the people on Enworld would stop acting like the new player experience is something they understand. Sometimes, you guys are so in your own heads with all the past D&D you've played, that you really just lose the ability to comprehend what the game is like for those of us who haven't played since 6000 BC.
And that's my biggest issue with WotC and how they have been treating D&D.

I'm perfectly fine with catering to casuals and rookies.

But NOT at the cost of trashing/ignoring/deleting/butchering/watering-down/simplifying everything the veterans loved. Everything that pretty much were the foundations and traditions of the game just tossed aside like it didn't mean anything or somehow can't be integrated into the rules of the new system.

The D&D community has become rather laughable. All-inclusive...but only if you're either brand new or willing to toss at least half your material out (or all of it if since the other half is game lore and Perkins and team pretty much made it clear that consistency and lore canon doesn't mean crap anymore.)

WotC could have easily gone two routes:

1) Support the older editions at a slow pace, while using the newer edition to bring more people to the game. Money from all ends since profit is all they care about.

2) Create two versions of the game; bring back AD&D. The new people have 5e and the veterans can have something a lot more closer to everything from 1e-3e than what 5e is providing now. Which is miniscule lumps of vegan meat.

This is why we have Edition Wars. Instead of pleasing everyone, which is easy to do logistically, they create bigger and bigger divisions with each new iteration of the game.

I've proposed an easy solution for them;

SOLUTION
Allow the DMs Guild to be open to all editions for creators, not just 5e. Allow writers to publish a "Fiendish Codex III: Yugoloths" or "Complete Incarnum" PDF for 3e. Allow another to rewrite 2e Psionics for the 2e system or publish a 2e Psychic Warrior. Allow the 1e creators to make PDFs converting 4e adventures to 1e. The list goes on.

Don't see the issue with that; literally everyone profits.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Don't see the issue with that; literally everyone profits.
The question is, are any theoretical profits generated greater than market confusion that might be created? Market confusion leads pretty directly to "less profit" as a rule. I think that's a nice idea, but it is not as win-win as you may think.

Also, plenty of older folks are happy with the game as it is. It is not "those kids" versus "the old guard."
 

Remove ads

Top