D&D 5E Caution in Too Much Fun

[iserith]

My theory is that the folks in those streams are primarily actors acting for an audience. And shopping is an easily improvised activity that gives them spotlight time where they can act their hearts out in character without having to worry about being the guy that is dominating the plot and also allows the other actors some downtime to rest before their next time in the spotlight.

Many of the odd choices that are made in AP streams/podcasts make sense if you think of them as a troupe of actors playing roles in an improvised story rather than players in a game.

I think that's true of some streams, perhaps even the more popular ones. But other streams it very much looks like a group of people playing more than performing and, sure enough, they're sitting there talking to shopkeeps and all evidence on the screen points to them not having the best time doing it.

 

[Professor Murder]

I would say it's not okay to bore someone anytime. Nobody's perfect, sure, but read the room as a player and DM and get change gears if something is boring the pants off even one person. Let's not make boredom a thing to put up with in D&D.

I guess this can be a goal at small tables. I have six players at my current table. In combats, when it's not a given player's turn, it's gonna be boring. That's gonna happen. Its why I advocate for anything that can reasonably help speed combat up.

 

[iserith]

I don't know how you can have a conversation in character at all unless you and all your players are the micromachine man... but okay.

There's not a ton of interaction to wring out of a shopkeeper in my view unless the DM really wants there to be. And I don't, usually. If you want to buy a scroll of stoneskin (assuming that's possible), I can briefly describe the whimsical Ye Olde Magick Shoppe, we can exchange a couple of lines for color, and then the rest is bookkeeping.

 

[Jer]

I think that's true of some streams, perhaps even the more popular ones. But other streams it very much looks like a group of people playing more than performing and, sure enough, they're sitting there talking to shopkeeps and all evidence on the screen points to them not having the best time doing it.

I don't watch a lot of streams, and I curate the AP podcasts I listen to ruthlessly as soon as they get boring, so I haven't seen anything like that, but I suspect that those folks are the ones who don't realize what's going on with the big popular streams and why they're doing what they do and are taking a "monkey see, monkey do" approach thinking they're giving the people what they want. Especially if they look like they're miserable doing it.

 

[iserith]

I don't watch a lot of streams, and I curate the AP podcasts I listen to ruthlessly as soon as they get boring, so I haven't seen anything like that, but I suspect that those folks are the ones who don't realize what's going on with the big popular streams and why they're doing what they do and are taking a "monkey see, monkey do" approach thinking they're giving the people what they want. Especially if they look like they're miserable doing it.

Yep, could be. I purposefully seek out less popular streams to watch along with some fellow DMs because it provides great insight into how other people play. Same with jumping into other DMs' pickup games as a player or running pickup games for randoms. Shopping is like the universal thing people do in many games without fail when certain conditions are in play (commonly lack of hooks or goals, desire for no-stakes situations, minute-by-minute playing of everything out, or a belief that true "RP" can only happen in these sorts of situations).

 

[iserith]

I guess this can be a goal at small tables. I have six players at my current table. In combats, when it's not a given player's turn, it's gonna be boring. That's gonna happen. Its why I advocate for anything that can reasonably help speed combat up.

I'm not sure it needs to be though. Since COVID, I've relaxed my regular game so it can include up to 6 people (normally limited to 5) and we frequently get that many players. Off-turn, people are planning, cracking wise, throwing stuff in chat, claiming Inspiration, or otherwise engaged. Plus everyone is very expedient in resolving their turns by agreement, so nobody is sitting around very long.

 

[Asisreo]

I think that's true of some streams, perhaps even the more popular ones. But other streams it very much looks like a group of people playing more than performing and, sure enough, they're sitting there talking to shopkeeps and all evidence on the screen points to them not having the best time doing it.

To expand using the shopping example, imagine being a player and seeing that Lightning sword you want to buy. You also see a holy-imbued talisman which could be very useful in your next adventure featuring tons of undead. But you can only afford one at their retail price. Well, you simply want to ask the merchant if you can get that item for a lower price, maybe suggesting your accolades and service to the community. The merchant lowers the price, but you're still not able to afford it.

It's an interesting decision point to continue or accept the price, but it's not necessarily "fun." However, losing out on one or the other might reduce your enjoyment or comfort in the future.

Similar situations happen all the time for players and while the DM can try to expedite the procedure, some DMs might imagine that doing so might remove agency or remove the opportunity for players to RP their character to their content.

And while you can talk about it, player might not have a big enough grievance with the session to make any note. Even if you ask, they may just respond with "yeah, it was fun. I liked it."

 

[jmartkdr2]

I would hope "4 hours shopping RP" is hyperbole, because please lord no.

I've seen it happen, but only in really large groups. And frankly it's not the most boring session if it's the role-play type of shopping where you get to interact with npcs and get cools stuff and advance individual subplots. But yeah most of the table is just watching. And you need to not do it too often.

 

[grimslade]

Ration fun like someone lost in the Sahara rations water, a few drips to make it last. Dry description and flat characterizations enable the fun to really stand out when it finally makes an appearance. One or two fun things per session with the remainder being a roll call like revelation of facts, like a board meeting. Your table will thank you by leaving and finding other tables to spread the word of limited fun.

 

[iserith]

To expand using the shopping example, imagine being a player and seeing that Lightning sword you want to buy. You also see a holy-imbued talisman which could be very useful in your next adventure featuring tons of undead. But you can only afford one at their retail price. Well, you simply want to ask the merchant if you can get that item for a lower price, maybe suggesting your accolades and service to the community. The merchant lowers the price, but you're still not able to afford it.

It's an interesting decision point to continue or accept the price, but it's not necessarily "fun." However, losing out on one or the other might reduce your enjoyment or comfort in the future.

Similar situations happen all the time for players and while the DM can try to expedite the procedure, some DMs might imagine that doing so might remove agency or remove the opportunity for players to RP their character to their content.

And while you can talk about it, player might not have a big enough grievance with the session to make any note. Even if you ask, they may just respond with "yeah, it was fun. I liked it."

I'm not sure I see an interesting decision point in your example since the character still can't afford the thing they want even after making the case for a discount. They're exactly where they started the scene. Nothing has really changed. This situation could be restructured to have more stakes and be more fun in my view.