D&D 5E The tyranny of small numbers

[Crimson Longinus]

I have felt for a while, that ability scores do not make sense if they're viewed like most of this board does.

If every character of given class is expected to have the same main ability score or constitution score at a given level, why is it a choice in the first place? If the class effectively dictates your ability scores, why are we pretending they're a choice, why are we pretending they represent individual variation? In such a paradigm they can't. It would be far more logical to get rid of ability scores then, and just have the classes provide the expected level appropriate bonuses.

It is not exactly what I would want, but it would be far more honest than pretending there is a choice and that they represent different characters being different, if in practice your class effectively dictates the score placement.

So seriously stop to think: what is the purpose of ability scores and what do they represent?

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think it would be cooler if proficiency came with leveling and higher stats came with flavourful abilities.

Yeah, I tried exploring that concept months ago, but it never received any great support from the community here.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think it would be cooler if proficiency came with leveling and higher stats came with flavourful abilities.

Like, a 15 in dex gives you an extra 5 feet of movement and a 15 in strength boosts your jumping or something. Idk. Just throwing random ideas. Nothing combat oriented or super powerful but just neat minor abilities.

Movement speed is combat related…

 

[Horwath]

Sure, I won't debate that point! But with a wider spread, getting each additional +1 costs more and more. It becomes a question of diminishing returns.

Oh, I agree with you here 100%

that is why I like point buy so much.

if +1 in primary is worth +1 in secondary and +1 in tertiary ability or +1 in 3 LOWEST scores, then we could have a good point for debating is it worth maxing your primary stat.

lets, have a modified point buy system:

pool; 32pts, no racial bonuses(they are in increased pool)

8: 0pts
9: 1pt
10: 2pts
11: 3pts
12: 4pts
13: 5pts
14: 6pts
15: 8pts
16: 10pts, MAX at lvl 1
17: 13pts
18: 16pts
19: 20pts
20: 24pts, max before magic or other special features

now. at level 4 you are expected to raise your primary from 16 to 18, that is 6pts for ASI or 3pts with half feat.
at level 8 you are expected to raise your primary from 18 to 20. That is 8pts or 4 pts with half feat.
all other feats after give 8pts. fighter level 6 also.

but, now you have incentive to spend your points more efficiently on lower stats. with 8 pts you can raise and 8 to 14(6pts) and a 12 to another 14(2pts)

 

[Charlaquin]

I have felt for a while, that ability scores do not make sense if they're viewed like most of this board does.

If every character of given class is expected to have the same main ability score or constitution score at a given level, why is it a choice in the first place? If the class effectively dictates your ability scores, why are we pretending they're a choice, why are we pretending they represent individual variation? In such a paradigm they can't. It would be far more logical to get rid of ability scores then, and just have the classes provide the expected level appropriate bonuses.

It is not exactly what I would want, but it would be far more honest than pretending there is a choice and that they represent different characters being different, if in practice your class effectively dictates the score placement.

So seriously stop to think: what is the purpose of ability scores and what do they represent?

I mean… I don’t disagree. Ability scores are a vestige of older editions that in 5e basically only create trap options. But a lot of people are really attached to them, and to having the option of… Whatever the opposite of min-maxing is. Can we call it like nerf-spreading or something?

 

[Horwath]

I have felt for a while, that ability scores do not make sense if they're viewed like most of this board does.

If every character of given class is expected to have the same main ability score or constitution score at a given level, why is it a choice in the first place? If the class effectively dictates your ability scores, why are we pretending they're a choice, why are we pretending they represent individual variation? In such a paradigm they can't. It would be far more logical to get rid of ability scores then, and just have the classes provide the expected level appropriate bonuses.

It is not exactly what I would want, but it would be far more honest than pretending there is a choice and that they represent different characters being different, if in practice your class effectively dictates the score placement.

So seriously stop to think: what is the purpose of ability scores and what do they represent?

As I previously stated, we could remove abilities from attacks, saves, AC, damage and DC,
instead of abilities, just add proficiency bonus.

keep ability bonuses to ABILITY checks.
the leaves them mostly to SKILL checks, initiative and some random checks here and there, counterspell or similar.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Movement speed is combat related…

It was an example made up on the spot. Hopefully you got the point of the idea and didn’t just focus on that one example.

 

[Synthil]

If the 5% isn’t end noticeable to you when it’s missing from your primary stat, it’s certainly not going to make you unable to contribute out of combat when it’s in a secondary stat.

Thank you! If the 5% hasn't a huge effect, it doesn't have an effect anywhere. So why would anyone care how others distribute their stats. You shouldn't even recognize any effect.

Or it is, in fact, noticeable. But then you don't get to be mad at people who want to be good at their primary role.

 

[Umbran]

I find that maxing out the stat really depends on what the character is designed to do -

For one character I played recently, a Battlemaster Artificer, I wanted to max out his Intelligence because it improved both his spells and his weapon attacks (due to a class feature, he used Int as his weapon attack stat most of the time), and because the concept for him was that he was the smartest guy in the room.

For a dwarf rogue I'm playing right now, the GM wanted rolled stats, so I didn't really get to choose to max out (or even have his highest stat in) his dexterity. Careful choices, however, gave me a stat array of 16, 15, 15, 15, 10, 7. Having only a +2 in his attack stat doesn't stop him from being an excellent skill monkey.

 

[Oofta]

And that’s an absolutely valid choice.

As is that, though personally as a DM I don’t require any particular roleplaying choices based on ability scores.

If the 5% isn’t even noticeable to you when it’s missing from your primary stat, it’s certainly not going to make you unable to contribute out of combat when it’s missing from a secondary stat.

If using point buy, getting those higher numbers is really expensive. You can get a lot of 12s, or 1 or 2 15s and a couple of 8s.

If you're rolling, it's a different story of course.