D&D General trying to make an alien-themed race but they keep turning into elves, help.

[Mind of tempest]

I keep trying to make a fantasy race and whenever I think about it too long it just dissolves in t a type of elf, which is fundamentally a problem as I am not an elf guy.
more exactly I am trying to make something vaguely space alien-themed and not an evil monster race so I keep remaking the idealised other that is the elf by accident, can someone tell me what the limits of elfdom are so I can succeed in my goal?
given I am trying to make one that is not a brute but mystical I keep running into this problem?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Obviously you are a little bit of "an elf guy" if all creative roads lead to elves for you. It's okay; there's nothing wrong with that. Now to paraphrase from a very wise source on ninjas:

Facts:
1. Elves are mammals.
2. Elves live ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the elf is to be like humans but better.

Also they have pointy ears. But the point is going counterwise on any of these, by making your spacey race non-mammalian (though even a non-ape-adjacent mammalian may do); non-long-lived; and/or not more elegant, wise, and whatever than humans, and they won't feel like elves.

 

[Blue Orange]

From TV Tropes (Standard Fantasy Races - TV Tropes):

Long-lived, pointy-eared and magical. Elves are usually portrayed as a far older civilization than humans, and will likely look down on the latter as unsophisticated children, but as long past their prime; they are usually either a Vestigial Empire or a truly Dying Race. They are usually either found in an Enchanted Forest, where they live In Harmony with Nature, or in shining marble cities. Different works may blend these two extremes to various degrees or split them between different elven groups, often calling the former Wood Elves and the latter High Elves. They don't get along with dwarves, usually because of some ancient rivalry or slight, and tend to look down on humans as little more than barbarians. Dark elves may be present as a distinct kind of elves, usually with black skin and white hair, who live underground in an evil or at least amoral society; dark and non-dark elves typically despise one another, and dark elves usually have no positive relationships with any other race. Elves are also more likely than any other race to get into an Interspecies Romance with humans, producing half-elves.

So they could:
-Be short-lived
-Have no ears
-Be of recent origin (perhaps created by a mad mage?)
-Be rapidly expanding and on their way up (creating conflict with existing races)
-Hate the woods, living instead in cities, underground, or on the ocean
-Be really fond of dwarves (if you have any)
-Really look up to humans (but not be interfertile!)

 

[kolya]

I mean... space operas don't have a great track record avoiding elves either.
Vulcans and Romulans are (accidentally?) space elves.
Minbari are (definitely not accidentally) space elves.
Na'vi are space elves.
I don't know how big a problem you really have.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Obviously you are a little bit of "an elf guy" if all creative roads lead to elves for you. It's okay; there's nothing wrong with that. Now to paraphrase from a very wise source on ninjas:

Facts:
1. Elves are mammals.
2. Elves live ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the elf is to be like humans but better.

Also they have pointy ears. But the point is going counterwise on any of these, by making your spacey race non-mammalian (though even a non-ape-adjacent mammalian may do); non-long-lived; and/or not more elegant, wise, and whatever than humans, and they won't feel like elves.

it is less appearance than an attitude as when you try to make an enlighted mystical race which is not hostile you just seem to make a culture of elf and it is driving me mad, what makes something not an elf but not just human or a monster?

From TV Tropes (Standard Fantasy Races - TV Tropes):

Long-lived, pointy-eared and magical. Elves are usually portrayed as a far older civilization than humans, and will likely look down on the latter as unsophisticated children, but as long past their prime; they are usually either a Vestigial Empire or a truly Dying Race. They are usually either found in an Enchanted Forest, where they live In Harmony with Nature, or in shining marble cities. Different works may blend these two extremes to various degrees or split them between different elven groups, often calling the former Wood Elves and the latter High Elves. They don't get along with dwarves, usually because of some ancient rivalry or slight, and tend to look down on humans as little more than barbarians. Dark elves may be present as a distinct kind of elves, usually with black skin and white hair, who live underground in an evil or at least amoral society; dark and non-dark elves typically despise one another, and dark elves usually have no positive relationships with any other race. Elves are also more likely than any other race to get into an Interspecies Romance with humans, producing half-elves.

So they could:
-Be short-lived
-Have no ears
-Be of recent origin (perhaps created by a mad mage?)
-Be rapidly expanding and on their way up (creating conflict with existing races)
-Hate the woods, living instead in cities, underground, or on the ocean
-Be really fond of dwarves (if you have any)
-Really look up to humans (but not be interfertile!)

I do not really pitcher them with conventional ears as is.
I was going for relatively recent arrivals sufficiently long that most have heard of them and they had time to build but do not have much history in the present world.

was going with rapidly expanding but on a more local level no kingdom has fallen but rapid areas are being remade to suit their varying taste.

elves have cities, drow live underground and sea elves are a thing, I was thinking rainforest and swamps with a side order anywhere hard to get to?

I mean... space operas don't have a great track record avoiding elves either.
Vulcans and Romulans are (accidentally?) space elves.
Minbari are (definitely not accidentally) space elves.
Na'vi are space elves.
I don't know how big a problem you really have.

every idea I have for a culture for them feels too elf-like which is driving me nuts.
I wish for a playable other who is not evil but strange in several ways, I was considering giving them the hyper pragmatism of lizardfolk but without the low-tech nature?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I was considering giving them the hyper pragmatism of lizardfolk but without the low-tech nature?

but then you're getting kinda close to the Vulcans, which are pretty much space elves.

What about an artificial yet sentient race like the Geth from Mass Effect? Or the Reapers (but not evil) from the same series?

or maybe the Protoss from Starcraft? Though they've always felt a little elf-y to me!

 

[Jer]

The problem isn't with you - it's the elves. They will expand to fill any concept if you aren't careful. That's the elf power.

And actually our concept of space aliens is tied up in our concept of Fey creatures. After all, what are the Greys but elves, abducting mortals into their UFOs instead of into their fairie mounds?

My advice is to make them as visually unlike elves as possible. Maybe short and ugly. Possibly with a greenish pallor to their skin. But mystical in nature (and oh no I've just described Yoda - who is basically a space elf.)

 

[Mind of tempest]

but then you're getting kinda close to the Vulcans, which are pretty much space elves.

What about an artificial yet sentient race like the Geth from Mass Effect? Or the Reapers (but not evil) from the same series?

or maybe the Protoss from Starcraft? Though they've always felt a little elf-y to me!

not logic pure pragmatism in going about their goals, so revenge is perfectly reasonable as a motivation but they will never be sadistic more kill you in the most efficient manner at their disposal, no vulcan who is operating in the way advocated would ever seek revenge.

highly likely to end up feeling like warforeged but perhaps they can send and receive information far faster than we can with vocal reduced to blunt range expression and writing as pure archival system/explain concepts that are hypothetical?

I am familiar with protoss to some extent and agree they share some elf traits but I will look deeper to see if anything other stuff there that could be harvested.

 

[jgsugden]

Elves are subjective. Your 'too elfy' might not be elfy enough for many others.

Instead of worrying about elves at all, I'd pick an alien race from a TV, movie, book, etc... and focus on building them. Then, I'd reskin them a little and call it a day. Whether you choose Klingons, Minbari, Wookies, Daleks, or Relgarians: Focus on what makes them unique and why they were introduced into that fiction. Then, when you reskin them, think about what makes something alien to your setting and point the reskinning towards that type of concept. For my setting, the creatures settles in space were almost all corrupted by the Far Realm when it invaded the Prime Universe... so they all are twisted and aberration-ish. Yours might all have advanced technology, or might be infused with shadow. Only you know.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I keep trying to make a fantasy race and whenever I think about it too long it just dissolves in t a type of elf, which is fundamentally a problem as I am not an elf guy.
more exactly I am trying to make something vaguely space alien-themed and not an evil monster race so I keep remaking the idealised other that is the elf by accident, can someone tell me what the limits of elfdom are so I can succeed in my goal?
given I am trying to make one that is not a brute but mystical I keep running into this problem?

The fundamental ‘elf’ concepts that define what makes an elf to me are:
-long lived, sometimes immortal unless actively killed.
-if not logical, then emotionally subdued/having good control over their own emotions, not impulsive.
-intellectual, elves tend towards more refined skills and master them accordingly, perfecting through careful and patient study, research and documentation of whatever crafts they apply themselves to be that magic, technology, biology or anything else.
-disconnected/superiority, elves have a tendency to either not care about anything that doesn’t directly affect them and their society or see themselves as above the rest of the universe regardless of their actual standing, or they’re more concerned with some ‘cosmic level’ philosophy or suchlike, they don’t care about your issues because ‘mortality is fleeting, in another mere 1000 years you’ll be dead, dust and gone’
-finesse, elves are graceful in basically everything they do, swift movement, tight precise form and perfect accuracy in their movements be that writing with a quill, drawing their bow and arrow or just eating a meal.
-well presented/tidy, elves care about their appearance and the appearance of their things they make, they, both in their long thin bodies and design sense are sleek, trimming out the unnecessary fat of cluttered designs leaving only what needs to be there and making it look as impressive as it can at the same time.

So looking at all these traits the concept of your ‘mystical not-brute not-elf’ sounds pretty much like a cross between a gnome and a halfling: friendly, expressive and excitable, not overly concerned with appearance, rough around the edges get their hands messy type, a down to earth practical sort, any magic/tech they have will likely be a bit wild and roughshod but also homely and comfortable, tied to their emotions most likely