D&D General trying to make an alien-themed race but they keep turning into elves, help.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Besides FRPGS, I’ve done a fair amount of gaming in SI-Fi and superheroic RPGs. Non-elves are easy…until you get to the “mystic“ part.

How are you defining “mystic”? What traits do you envision, besides “non-brute”? What other races inhabit your setting?

After all, what are the Greys but elves, abducting mortals into their UFOs instead of into their fairie mounds?

I actually did a campaign in which “elves“ were actually crashlanded Greys awaiting rescue by their people, with ”Underhill” being their long buried ship. Their use of stasis technology accounts for the odd passage of time when there.

 

[Celebrim]

The secret is to make the biological basis of the species something other than simian. If you make idealized simians you'll pretty much always end up with some sort of existing archetypal fantasy race with the sticker slapped over it.

So my completely off the cuff just invented race uses bounding or pronging locomotion. They have three digits on each hand. They have short sharp horns on their head and long flexible tongues. They are highly industrialized, and prone to causing ecological collapse and mass pollution. They live in large-crowded cities. They strongly dislike solitude. They love ritual combat sports and the instinct to duel is so strong they've never entirely successfully repressed it. Their families are organized around serial monogamous partnerships where partners mate for six years and then either must renew vows or move on. They are highly communal, and families are part of extended clans that share property and the responsibility for rearing older young.

So, not an elf.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Instead of worrying about elves at all, I'd pick an alien race from a TV, movie, book, etc... and focus on building them.

That’s a good place to start. So is mining Earth’s ancient biology.

SimEarth did the latter when they included trichordates in the game.

Tribrachidium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Having a sentient radially symmetrical species as the core of your new species could unlock your creative juices.

 

[LordEntrails]

Dralasites, Yazarians, and Vrusks are not space elves.

You could also go with space orcs, or space kobolds or space dwarves.

Or, you could go with something from a sci-fi show, like energy balls, or green antennae, or...

Just avoid the elf traits like others have detailed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

How about a sentient plant species? Those can be long-lived and physically tough without being true “brutes”.

I did an alien heavyworlder race in a supers setting whose form was a metallic cable. They were not particularly strong, but were quite resistant to physical damage. But electrical attacks did more damage to them than other species. They would coil into other shapes to appear more visually relatable to other species by mimicking their forms.

Transforming that into a plantlike fantasy species would make them into woody vines, with a vulnerability to fire.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The fundamental ‘elf’ concepts that define what makes an elf to me are:
-long lived, sometimes immortal unless actively killed.
-if not logical, then emotionally subdued/having good control over their own emotions, not impulsive.
-intellectual, elves tend towards more refined skills and master them accordingly, perfecting through careful and patient study, research and documentation of whatever crafts they apply themselves to be that magic, technology, biology or anything else.
-disconnected/superiority, elves have a tendency to either not care about anything that doesn’t directly affect them and their society or see themselves as above the rest of the universe regardless of their actual standing, or they’re more concerned with some ‘cosmic level’ philosophy or suchlike, they don’t care about your issues because ‘mortality is fleeting, in another mere 1000 years you’ll be dead, dust and gone’
-finesse, elves are graceful in basically everything they do, swift movement, tight precise form and perfect accuracy in their movements be that writing with a quill, drawing their bow and arrow or just eating a meal.
-well presented/tidy, elves care about their appearance and the appearance of their things they make, they, both in their long thin bodies and design sense are sleek, trimming out the unnecessary fat of cluttered designs leaving only what needs to be there and making it look as impressive as it can at the same time.

So looking at all these traits the concept of your ‘mystical not-brute not-elf’ sounds pretty much like a cross between a gnome and a halfling: friendly, expressive and excitable, not overly concerned with appearance, rough around the edges get their hands messy type, a down to earth practical sort, any magic/tech they have will likely be a bit wild and roughshod but also homely and comfortable, tied to their emotions most likely

the problem is I end up with gnomes/halflings, which I also wanted to avoid.

metally I was going for hyper pragmatic in how they go about any goal as opposed to the why, so if they wanted to kill you they would do it in the easiest way available to them, they have utterly alien ideas on what to do with the dead they would not eat there own but would seek to gain whatever use is left assuming they can't resurrect them so skinning is not out the question.
I see a much more brute force approach to combat, well trained but will solve it with a no-frills approach and utterly willing to do anything to win if that means dishonourable tactics then yes if honourable ways will do just as well or get something else they will use them instead.

Besides FRPGS, I’ve done a fair amount of gaming in SI-Fi and superheroic RPGs. Non-elves are easy…until you get to the “mystic“ part.

How are you defining “mystic”? What traits do you envision, besides “non-brute”? What other races inhabit your setting?


I actually did a campaign in which “elves“ were actually crashlanded Greys awaiting rescue by their people, with ”Underhill” being their long buried ship. Their use of stasis technology accounts for the odd passage of time when there.

your classic loves magic/psionic and is to some degree spiritual hence how do you avoid accidentally making something that is an elf with a cooler look.

How about a sentient plant species? Those can be long-lived and physically tough without being true “brutes”.

I did an alien heavyworlder race in a supers setting whose form was a metallic cable. They were not particularly strong, but were quite resistant to physical damage. But electrical attacks did more damage to them than other species. They would coil into other shapes to appear more visually relatable to other species by mimicking their forms.

Transforming that into a plantlike fantasy species would make them into woody vines, with a vulnerability to fire.

people did elves as plants at one point, plus dryads and treants are elf friends so it would likely just get lumped in with them.

Dralasites, Yazarians, and Vrusks are not space elves.

You could also go with space orcs, or space kobolds or space dwarves.

Or, you could go with something from a sci-fi show, like energy balls, or green antennae, or...

Just avoid the elf traits like others have detailed.

the star frontier races are not to my spec plus we are getting them with spell jammer so I can just wait.
space orcs are just Klingons or things who are angry and brutish, I do not even know what a space kobold would even be like and space dwarves have been done.

That’s a good place to start. So is mining Earth’s ancient biology.

SimEarth did the latter when they included trichordates in the game.

Tribrachidium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Having a sentient radially symmetrical species as the core of your new species could unlock your creative juices.

turns out the mobile a thing is the more it trends towards bilateral symmetry, explaining sea pigs which is a relative of the starfish.

 

[LordEntrails]

and space dwarves have been done.

Everything has been done. Quite literally. Accept that and move on. You have said lots of what you don't want. But you haven't done a good job of saying what you do want.

Find something from some source you like well enough, and go with it. Give it a new name if needed. You're players probably won't recognize it and are more likely to think it's something else anyway. Besides, you probably care about originality a lot more than you players will. They are probably more interested in cool themes and options to bring to the table something unusual.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

your classic loves magic/psionic and is to some degree spiritual hence how do you avoid accidentally making something that is an elf with a cooler look.

Different physical forms, different biology, different motivations, etc.

For instance, elves typically have a fairly intricate and ancient culture with a taste for ornate Art Deco/Asian/Celtic/Islamic style aesthetics. Their idea of harmony with nature is akin to something you’d see in the circus trees of Gilroy Gardens.

Now imagine an ancient culture that- in THEIR view of harmony with nature- were minimalistic, with an Amish-like premium on simplicity and imposing your will in nature as little as possible. Their concept of ownership stops at the point of what an individual can carry (if their anatomy supports it, with things like backpacks, of course).

Perhaps, instead of building great cities, they live largely solitary lives, congregating only when it is time to mate.

people did elves as plants at one point, plus dryads and treants are elf friends so it would likely just get lumped in with them.

I’ve done planty elves.

But sentient, semi-amorphous/shapeshifting VINES starts off pretty far away from “elf”, IMHO.

turns out the mobile a thing is the more it trends towards bilateral symmetry, explaining sea pigs which is a relative of the starfish.

True, but in a world with flying, fire-breathing intelligent megafauna and arcanists who bend reality to their will, sometimes up to and including cheating death, a radially symmetrical, sentient, terrestrial species is not all that outré.

 

[Yaarel]

What up updating or rethinking the 4e shardmind for 5e?

They are psionic, kinda mystical, with a warforge vibe. Being a living crystal gets away from a number of elf tropes.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Everything has been done. Quite literally. Accept that and move on. You have said lots of what you don't want. But you haven't done a good job of saying what you do want.

Find something from some source you like well enough, and go with it. Give it a new name if needed. You're players probably won't recognize it and are more likely to think it's something else anyway. Besides, you probably care about originality a lot more than you players will. They are probably more interested in cool themes and options to bring to the table something unusual.

if I knew what I wanted I would have found it, ported it or created it hence the thread in the first place.
I have never found anything in my entire life that I liked all of, I am trying to make something out of bits I enjoy but it keeps morphing into a suspiciously elven culture, and I hate elves.

Different physical forms, different biology, different motivations, etc.

For instance, elves typically have a fairly intricate and ancient culture with a taste for ornate Art Deco/Asian/Celtic/Islamic style aesthetics. Their idea of harmony with nature is akin to something you’d see in the circus trees of Gilroy Gardens.

Now imagine an ancient culture that- in THEIR view of harmony with nature- were minimalistic, with an Amish-like premium on simplicity and imposing your will in nature as little as possible. Their concept of ownership stops at the point of what an individual can carry (if their anatomy supports it, with things like backpacks, of course).

Perhaps, instead of building great cities, they live largely solitary lives, congregating only when it is time to mate.

I have considered something like that, I like making at least a duoculture for any race but I also want to make some thing with more of a civilsation to them, which is ideally expanding as elves are allways on the defencsive age fallen, I want young and strog but with good ideals.

but again that makes them elfy with a high-wood elf split.

I’ve done planty elves.

But sentient, semi-amorphous/shapeshifting VINES starts off pretty far away from “elf”, IMHO.

True, but in a world with flying, fire-breathing intelligent megafauna and arcanists who bend reality to their will, sometimes up to and including cheating death, a radially symmetrical, sentient, terrestrial species is not all that outré.

elf is less a biology and more stait of mind/culture hence the problem I made this thread for?

true it is posible in dnd but then you got to ad a whole buch of systems and in the end you just make a cool look flumph.