D&D 5E Toll the Chest

[Swarmkeeper]

Because the Mimic has no way to know combat has started and is waiting for the party to come close, it is surprised by the Spell.

If a PC in a party casts an attack spell on a monster prior to combat starting, is the monster always going to be surprised in your game?

 

[Hriston]

If there's no RAW requirement to know what the thing they are looking at is, then looking at a Mimic as a chest, which they know is a potential danger, is noticing a threat. End of story.

The requirement is they notice a threat. The threat in the room is the mimic. They haven't noticed the mimic. They only noticed an ordinary chest which, contrary to your house rule about potential threats, does not constitute a threat.

Okay.

By RAW those would not be able to surprise a party, since they are noticed. However, with the Mimic's perfect imitation, if the party wasn't suspicious of the chest, I would make a ruling that it could surprise them. If they were suspicious of the chest in any way(trap, Mimic, whatever), then it can't surprise them since it is by RAW a noticed threat and RAW does not allow surprise under those circumstances.

It doesn't allow surprise under any circumstance because the walls could be a threat, the floor could be a threat, the ceiling could be a threat, etc. RAW is if you notice even a single threat, you cannot be surprised.

 

[Maxperson]

If a PC in a party casts an attack spell on a monster prior to combat starting, is the monster always going to be surprised in your game?

It depends on the monster. A Mimic can't speak, except for the very rare Mimic that can hold simple conversation in common. They are not going to be able to recognize a spell being cast. A more intelligent creature on the other hand...

 

[Maxperson]

The requirement is they notice a threat. The threat in the room is the mimic. They haven't noticed the mimic. They only noticed an ordinary chest which, contrary to your house rule about potential threats, does not constitute a threat.

The threat in the room is the chest. It just happens to be a Mimic. Since RAW has no requirement that they know what the threat truly is, they have noticed the threat by RAW. You're free to house rule differently, but what I am saying is RAW.

It doesn't allow surprise under any circumstance because the walls could be a threat, the floor could be a threat, the ceiling could be a threat, etc. RAW is if you notice even a single threat, you cannot be surprised.

You keep saying that, but you have yet to be correct when you do. What part of, "If they don't notice(see) it before surprise is determined, they are surprised." are you not getting?

 

[Imaculata]

I don't get why people bend over backwards to be an adversarial DM to the players.

I don't require my players to separate player knowledge from character knowledge. If they think it might be a mimic, and it is, then they've outsmarted the mimic.

There's been so many times in Dark Souls where I just smacked the chest with my sword, just to be sure. I don't see why that wouldn't be a valid tactic in D&D.

 

[James Gasik]

I don't get why people bend over backwards to be an adversarial DM to the players.

I don't require my players to separate player knowledge from character knowledge. If they think it might be a mimic, and it is, then they've outsmarted the mimic.

There's been so many times in Dark Souls where I just smacked the chest with my sword, just to be sure. I don't see why that wouldn't be a valid tactic in D&D.

It would be, but don't forget, D&D Mimics are covered in adhesive goo, so smacking it with your sword might not be the best idea...

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The requirement is they notice a threat. The threat in the room is the mimic. They haven't noticed the mimic. They only noticed an ordinary chest which,

Why do you think they're casting a spell that doesn't affect objects on an ordinary chest?

contrary to your house rule about potential threats, does not constitute a threat.

Then you'd be always surprised by basically everything. You don't know things are a threat until they attack.

 

[Hussar]

I don't get why people bend over backwards to be an adversarial DM to the players.

I don't require my players to separate player knowledge from character knowledge. If they think it might be a mimic, and it is, then they've outsmarted the mimic.

There's been so many times in Dark Souls where I just smacked the chest with my sword, just to be sure. I don't see why that wouldn't be a valid tactic in D&D.

Yeah, this, in a nutshell. Why on earth would you bother insisting the baddie got surprise in this scenario? All that does is discourage intelligent play from the players. Why bother checking anything? If it's a trap, it's going to hit me no matter what I do, so, I might as well just blunder into everything and stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[Hriston]

The threat in the room is the chest. It just happens to be a Mimic. Since RAW has no requirement that they know what the threat truly is, they have noticed the threat by RAW. You're free to house rule differently, but what I am saying is RAW.

Except that noticing an ordinary chest is not noticing a threat. An ordinary chest is not going to get up and attack you. The threat in the room is the mimic. It just happens to look like an ordinary chest which prevents it (in this scenario) from being noticed.

You keep saying that, but you have yet to be correct when you do. What part of, "If they don't notice(see) it before surprise is determined, they are surprised." are you not getting?

What, they don't notice the walls, the ceiling, and the floor before the start of combat?

 

[Hriston]

Why do you think they're casting a spell that doesn't affect objects on an ordinary chest?

According to the OP, because they're "suspicious the chest might be a mimic". If they had noticed the mimic, they would know it's a mimic.

Then you'd be always surprised by basically everything. You don't know things are a threat until they attack.

You don't have to know things are a threat. You just have to notice them.