D&D 5E How Far Could D&D Change--And STILL Be D&D?

[GMforPowergamers]

I find that interesting because mechanics matter A LOT for me re: feel of a game.

For example, I just can't get into GURPS. I've tried (I"ve DM'd, friends have DMd, have tried it at a few conventions) - and I honestly think it's the D6s rolling 3d6 all the time just feels off. If D&D moved in that direction, it would be pretty tough for me to move with it!

Or when Deadlands released a D20 version. Group tried it, and wow was the feel completely off compared to the "regular" one. Even WITH all of the terminology etc. being the same.

I agree 100% that it feel different.... I just think D&D 2e compared to 3e plays and feels different. 2e or 3e to 5e feels different, but 5e is closer to 3e then 4e is to either... if basic, 1e, 2e, 3e,4e,and 5e are all D&D the feel is very mailable.

D&D is a bacon double cheese burger. A 5 guys bacon double cheese burger is very different then a TGI Fridays bacon double cheese burger and both are a far cry away from burger Kings Bacon double cheeseburger... but I can recognize they are the same thing even if they present with some major differences.

I can't understand how someone that went through even 1 edition change would think (unless it was only 1e to 2e) that D&D was a burger king bacon cheese burger and not a 5 guys one..

now I am hungry

 

[Mort]

that really sounds like 2e to me... the party fights through hoards of rooms and minions, walks into the BBEG and he cast disintegrate or slay lvng or finger of death and the thief dies and can't draw up a replacement fast enough and even if he could DM couldn't reintroduce hm tonight

or with my hands and ability with jenga more like First trap of the night my thief rolls 00 on % dice to disarm triggers the poison trap and dies...

I played 2e for many years, SoD existed but was fairly rare (in our groups, ymmv), TPKs happened but were even more rare. I couldn't imagine a 2e game where the NORM was for every character to die by the end of the session. I just can't see that as being sustainable as a campaign!

 

[Mort]

I agree 100% that it feel different.... I just think D&D 2e compared to 3e plays and feels different. 2e or 3e to 5e feels different, but 5e is closer to 3e then 4e is to either... if basic, 1e, 2e, 3e,4e,and 5e are all D&D the feel is very mailable.

D&D is a bacon double cheese burger. A 5 guys bacon double cheese burger is very different then a TGI Fridays bacon double cheese burger and both are a far cry away from burger Kings Bacon double cheeseburger... but I can recognize they are the same thing even if they present with some major differences.

I can't understand how someone that went through even 1 edition change would think (unless it was only 1e to 2e) that D&D was a burger king bacon cheese burger and not a 5 guys one..

now I am hungry

Ah, but substitute turkey bacon - is it still a bacon cheeseburger?

Put in an impossible burger and tofu "cheese" - still a bacon cheeseburger?

Not all mechanics fit all games, and some can actually harm the experience. Much as we'd like to think more = better, it's not always true.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ah, but substitute turkey bacon - is it still a bacon cheeseburger?

Put in an impossible burger and tofu "cheese" - still a bacon cheeseburger?

Not all mechanics fit all games, and some can actually harm the experience. Much as we'd like to think more = better, it's not always true.

And that better be two (2) strips of crispy bacon placed in parallel to one another. So help me if I see three strips or one of those bacon rounds or if it is possible for, on an infinite plane for the lines formed by the bacon to intersect, I will slap that non-bacon cheeseburger out of people's mouths and fall to the floor, shouting until the police ask me to leave!

 

[Umbran]

According to too many when a Fighter can do more than some HP damage and the odd skill check.

How about we not get into the wry, discontented jabs coming out of other discussions?

 

[CleverNickName]

And that better be two (2) strips of crispy bacon placed in parallel to one another. So help me if I see three strips or one of those bacon rounds or if it is possible for, on an infinite plane for the lines formed by the bacon to intersect, I will slap that non-bacon cheeseburger out of people's mouths and fall to the floor, shouting until the police ask me to leave!

I can't stop laughing at this analogy. It's pure perfection.

 

[Cadence]

just suggest artificer be in the 2024 PHB and people will melt down... throw in warforged and you may get some real fireworks

Warforged and Artificer being added? Or Warforged and Artificer replacing things?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Ah, but substitute turkey bacon - is it still a bacon cheeseburger?

Put in an impossible burger and tofu "cheese" - still a bacon cheeseburger?

Not all mechanics fit all games, and some can actually harm the experience. Much as we'd like to think more = better, it's not always true.

when my aunt tried to replace hamburg in meatballs with turkey and I was trying to be nice... I was 7 or 8 and when she told me I said "Thank god, I thought you made the worst meatballs ever" it has been a joke in my family for 35 years... BUT that impossible burger is supposed to be indistinguishable.

 

[Umbran]

How much could you change D&D (5E as the current version) and still feel like it is D&D?

So, I don't think this works by considering the "amount" of change, or some "size" of change, if only because there's no measure of change. Nobody can answer, "Well, if they change it 14 units, it is still D&D, but if they change it 27 units, definitely not."

It comes down, instead, not to "how much" but "What things I hold dear can they change before I no longer also hold the resulting game dearly?"

Basically, it is making a list of personal "sacred cows". Not that I like that phrase, but it is the one folks will understand easily.

 

[CleverNickName]

just suggest artificer be in the 2024 PHB and people will melt down... throw in warforged and you may get some real fireworks.

They added the Artificer in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and nobody blew a fuse at my table.

It helps that the Artificer had already been released in the Eberron campaign setting, and we were running Eberron at the time. But I liked the change. Before Tasha's the Artificer felt like it was purely "an Eberron thing." Now that the Artificer class is in a setting-neutral sourcebook, they feel more universal and accessible. (That, and players won't be tempted to assume that if Artificers are allowed in a setting, dragonmarks and warforged and everything else specific to Eberron will also be allowed.)

The warforged are another matter. Even after playing 2+ years of Eberron, the concept of a magical, sentient, playable robot race in D&D feels weird and out-of-place. I don't think they will ever feel "universal and accessible" to me.