D&D General Why does D&D still have 16th to 20th level?

[Reynard]

See i read the message you responded to as, "my players want to keep adventuring, but the game does a poor job of supporting me in that past a certain level".

Me too, but apparently I was wrong.

 

[nevin]

Though I hope it is not too difficult to understand the disappointment about the fact that, yet again, D&D requires a third-party product in order to address fundamental gaps between key archetypes.

And yet this has been a consistent problem for decades. Clearly its not just a matter of "tweaking" the rules.

By Game design the character can do anything the DM can imagine, and will allow. Having a rule for everything would take away half the fun. Some players get so into thier characters they want to play them to some pinnacle. I've got npc's in my world that were former players. Even a few that have joined pantheons.

Every attempt I've seen to publish "epic" level rules turns into a highspeed railroad to make it easier for the DM and at the same time sucks all the fun out of the game. zKind've like the monster manual, spell books, and magical item's lists. known is boring. uknown is cool. that is never going to change.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Having a rule for everything would take away half the fun.

No one is asking for that, so it isn't very productive to attack that man, no matter how tempting his straw body may be.

You don't need "a rule for everything" to have a game that works out of the box and actually supports key archetypes (like "Fighter") equally to the ones that traditionally got the preferential treatment (like "Wizard.")

 

[James Gasik]

I'm curious how making things easier for the DM translates into less fun for the players. Seems to me that making things harder for the DM would translate into no fun for anyone.

 

[nevin]

I'm curious how making things easier for the DM translates into less fun for the players. Seems to me that making things harder for the DM would translate into no fun for anyone.

I said it in my post. Known is boring, unknown is fun. known is expected, unknown is excitement.

 

[James Gasik]

I said it in my post. Known is boring, unknown is fun. known is expected, unknown is excitement.

I....what? You lost me. Game easier for DM to run =/= excitement of facing the unknown.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm curious how making things easier for the DM translates into less fun for the players. Seems to me that making things harder for the DM would translate into no fun for anyone.

I feel like there is an assumption that every DM is a Level 85 DM with no day job or hobbies outside of making the game. If you're not putting your all into punching the game into shape, a cutlass clenched between your teeth and blood dripping over one eye, you are slacking off.

 

[Shardstone]

I just want a more expansive game for levels 11-20, instead of the something with half the thought put into it as 1-10.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I just want a more expansive game for levels 11-20, instead of the something with half the thought put into it as 1-10.

I'd personally like half the thought that wa sput into 3-10 and absolutely none of the thoughts that went into 1 and 2.

 

[James Gasik]

I'd personally like half the thought that wa sput into 3-10 and absolutely none of the thoughts that went into 1 and 2.

Aren't 1 and 2 afterthoughts added to make people who want "zero to hero" happy?