D&D 3E/3.5 Epic 6 3.5 Rebuild

[tricktroller]

Have these been playtested? I can easily see a situation where folks start seeing that Class x and y are poor choices to z.

So the lists have not all been playtested but I am currently running for 3 different groups using these rules and have another friend running a game of his own using these rules. SO we are working on it lol. The other thing to keep in mind though is that each class is also totally rewritten. You get class features and abilities at every single level 1-6 and 7-8 effective level.

So the spell list is meant to be complimentary to the class and what it does, as opposed to saying "Fireball is the best spell."
For instance, Duskblades get Haste as a first level spell, not a problem since at first level it targets one creature and lasts for 1 round. At 3rd it hits three targets for 3 rounds, so nothing ground breaking, but a nice boost to the gish in a can.
Spellthief gets things like distract assailant and critical strike
Beguiler gets things like invisibility and bolts of bedevilment etc
So it isn't that any one list has the most potent spells, it's that they each compliment what the class is doing.

 

[tricktroller]

I just realized I talked about what I am working on but never actually posted the link to the google doc, like a moron. Hard to give context without, y'know, the context.
So here is what I have so far in it's unfinished and unpolished form. We are play testing it very heavily at the moment, but I would love to hear your feedback folks. Remember, very little of 3.5 is exactly the same in this version of E6. Feats, classes, races, spells, skills, etc.

So take assumptions about how things used to work and look at this as a more clean slate that is hopefully much more balanced.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VG4LfYeS4crZa-pVouaWhVBflAvfdkEKjzEGgTzOiTI/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Zio_the_dark]

I just realized I talked about what I am working on but never actually posted the link to the google doc, like a moron. Hard to give context without, y'know, the context.
So here is what I have so far in it's unfinished and unpolished form. We are play testing it very heavily at the moment, but I would love to hear your feedback folks. Remember, very little of 3.5 is exactly the same in this version of E6. Feats, classes, races, spells, skills, etc.

So take assumptions about how things used to work and look at this as a more clean slate that is hopefully much more balanced.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VG4LfYeS4crZa-pVouaWhVBflAvfdkEKjzEGgTzOiTI/edit?usp=sharing

I won't probably give you feedback but thanks for sharing this

 

[tricktroller]

I won't probably give you feedback but thanks for sharing this

You're welcome! It doesn't have to be comprehensive critical feedback. It could just be things like. I really like what you did with the crusader, or why no warblade, or do you plan to add this in later, etc.

I welcome all feedback!

 

[payn]

Looked it over. Seems you have taken the race/class/trait/feat/archetype/prestige into a list of packaged classes. Some folks might really enjoy this, however, it cuts the heart right out of 3E/PF1 my favorite fantasy RPG. All those things are why I still use the system. So, I'd give this a whirl, but not likely something id ever run. I do like what you have done, so want to thank you for sharing.

 

[tricktroller]

Well you can still prestige. It's one of the feats. You get the class abilities of the prestige classes, making some of the ones that used to be useless be much more useful. Plus those will be getting some rewrites as well.

You also still get to pick between two class additions or getting star boosts and a feat. Races are still there as well and much more open to fit whatever you might want to roleplay. Like humans can give up bonus skill points to gain lowlight or dark vision, etc.

Do you mean that you no longer have to dip five classes plus a prestige class to get a class that does something special at level 10? Because that was absolutely the point of E6 at it's base and I further pushed it by making each class unique from the others and also being playable beyond a one level dip to get pounce from a barbarian or trapfinding from rogue so you can dip a level in trapsmith to get haste as a level one spell on your swordsage, etc.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there is still a lot of customization in this version. And you can still multiclass, you just don't get a class addition for your second class.

Also, thank you so much for looking it over and giving feedback!

 

[payn]

I always believed E6/8 was to maintain the sweet spot where the system math works best. Where combats are easy to run with reasonable magic, HP, and abilities. Dipping is still prevalent in E6/8 and the system does nothing to discourage it. Though, I'll also say that dipping never bothered me in the least, I'm not the guy you are aiming for if you think its a problem.

As for customization of your system, its ok, I just miss the plethora of options I get from PF1.

 

[tricktroller]

Fair enough! I'm also trying to make this system incredibly easy for players who've never played before that don't want to do hours of theory crafting and dumpster diving for the right feat/race/class/skill trick combo.

I personally also love that about 3.5 but again, trying to make this simpler, especially for new players.

I also think, this way removes the huge disparity in build strength you can have between a badly built character and a min maxer. There will always be min maxing. A Goliath Barbarian with martial maneuvers is gonna kick serious butt in combat, but so is an armored monk hitting with two kukris that do 2d6 base damage and getting 8 attacks in a round.

And so will the wizard and spellthief and swashbuckler. That's probably the biggest goal of this rewrite is to make everyone at the table feel like a hero.

 

[payn]

Fair enough! I'm also trying to make this system incredibly easy for players who've never played before that don't want to do hours of theory crafting and dumpster diving for the right feat/race/class/skill trick combo.

I personally also love that about 3.5 but again, trying to make this simpler, especially for new players.

I also think, this way removes the huge disparity in build strength you can have between a badly built character and a min maxer. There will always be min maxing. A Goliath Barbarian with martial maneuvers is gonna kick serious butt in combat, but so is an armored monk hitting with two kukris that do 2d6 base damage and getting 8 attacks in a round.

And so will the wizard and spellthief and swashbuckler. That's probably the biggest goal of this rewrite is to make everyone at the table feel like a hero.

Noble goals and if you really want new players to jump on this I would certainly highlight those points. Perhaps a preview file that articulates why you wrote this system and what you are attempting to save them from. I think understanding those points will be very important if you want to target new players and/or the 3E/PF uninitiated. A few things that might steer me away from your game as a new player. SRD is free. This was covered earlier, but it should not be overlooked. If I was a new player I would want to see for myself if all the hullabaloo about 3E/PF craziness is true by playing as published. Why should I not do that and try your system instead?

 

[tricktroller]

Noble goals and if you really want new players to jump on this I would certainly highlight those points. Perhaps a preview file that articulates why you wrote this system and what you are attempting to save them from. I think understanding those points will be very important if you want to target new players and/or the 3E/PF uninitiated. A few things that might steer me away from your game as a new player. SRD is free. This was covered earlier, but it should not be overlooked. If I was a new player I would want to see for myself if all the hullabaloo about 3E/PF craziness is true by playing as published. Why should I not do that and try your system instead?

All good points and I do fully intend to write a cover page for the book when I am done with it that explains the system.
As for why should they buy this instead of playing the free SRD I would say is due to ease of use, and the fact that all of it is there. The SRD has quite a bit of 3.5 but hardly the largest selection since it includes so little of the massive number of books from 3.5. None of the campaign settings, none of the complete books, none of the races books, etc.
I'm not publishing core content only that is rewritten, and it includes classes, spells, etc that only exist within my system.
So sure if you want to try to teach yourself 3.5 you could spend a very long time reading the SRD, or you could pay a little money and have a system that makes much more sense and is one book for all the classes, etc. I don't expect to make millions but I think it would be a really fun system for folks.