D&D General "I make a perception check."

[iserith]

I was watching an episode of Stargate: Atlantis recently that had an interesting idea (IMO) for a secret door.

There is a hallway with a solid wall at the end.

As you walk to the solid wall at the end of the hallway, there are 3 lamps - set about 5 feet apart (one after the other - along the way to the solid wall). If you touch each lamp 1 after the other, as you are walking, (if you stop it doesn't work) and THEN walk "into" the wall, the wall is not solid (even though it still looks solid) and you walk into the next room.

@Charlaquin , @GMforPowergamers , @iserith - or anyone who wants to really.

If you were DMing, how would finding this "secret door," likely, work in your session? How would it look?

Another example to use against each other? I believe I'll pass on the details, adding only that whatever way a player approaches it, their decisions will matter.

 

[DND_Reborn]

anyone who wants to really.

If you were DMing, how would finding this "secret door," likely, work in your session? How would it look?

Detect Magic to reveal the "wall" at the end is somehow magically enchanted (given the "not solid" although it looks sold still) followed by a DC 20 Intelligence (Investigation) check to figure out the touch lamps in succession without stopping.

Now, the players can also "tell me what they do" and if they figure it out great, but after so much time has lapsed, I'll just let them roll.

Oh, and if no detect magic is used, the checks are made with disadvantage.

I'm a mean DM.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't really understand what that means in a practical sense.

I see that becuse in your mind (and correct me if I am wrong) the ONLY reason to roleplay or give details or to try to work inside your character is if it gives a mechanical bonus?

If my decisions and characterizations don't actually affect the outcome, I'm not sure why I'd make much of an effort to do it.

again... to have fun at the table.

I'm still not sure we're operating from the same definition of roleplaying.

okay i will bite.

I think of roleplaying at it's core being when I get into character and play out that role. When sitting around at the tavern and telling stories that's role playing. When I decide to freeze when I see my character's dead father in the distance that is role playing.

I agree with the rules in that it is a player making decisions about what their character does, says, and thinks.

baring some outside circumstance yes we agree

But if you tell me it doesn't matter what I do,

i mean... it doesn't make a mechanical advancement or mechanical advantage... I wouldn't say it doesn't matter. It matters in the narrative, I mean sometimes what inn you stay at CAN matter... and the benefit is when YOU (or any player) really want to MAKE it more important to the shared narrative you can just give details then.

I'm going to roll a die no matter how efficacious my declared action is, and it has no affect on DC or on whether you grant adv/disadv, then I'm not sure why I should bother putting any effort into that roleplaying.

again... so is the only reason you play the role is to get benfits?

 

[Mort]

Another example to use against each other? I believe I'll pass on the details, adding only that whatever way a player approaches it, their decisions will matter.

No, not against. Just very curious how it looks in your vs. @GMforPowergamers game.

Seems like a fun standard "puzzle" of sorts and it occurred to me that despite the "standard" nature it would look very different between the two.

Or it wouldn't, and people might realize they were talking past rather than too each other.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I was watching an episode of Stargate: Atlantis recently that had an interesting idea (IMO) for a secret door.

There is a hallway with a solid wall at the end.

As you walk to the solid wall at the end of the hallway, there are 3 lamps - set about 5 feet apart (one after the other - along the way to the solid wall). If you touch each lamp 1 after the other, as you are walking, (if you stop it doesn't work) and THEN walk "into" the wall, the wall is not solid (even though it still looks solid) and you walk into the next room.

@Charlaquin , @GMforPowergamers , @iserith - or anyone who wants to really.

If you were DMing, how would finding this "secret door," likely, work in your session? How would it look?

tbh this would most likely not show up in one of my games... but if it had to, it would be magic. I would foreshadow multi times that there are magic trick in this dungeon and short of a player by pur happenstance trigger it, they would have to (and I am sure they would) just walk around detecting magic

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Detect Magic to reveal the "wall" at the end is somehow magically enchanted (given the "not solid" although it looks sold still) followed by a DC 20 Intelligence (Investigation) check to figure out the touch lamps in succession without stopping.

Now, the players can also "tell me what they do" and if they figure it out great, but after so much time has lapsed, I'll just let them roll.

Oh, and if no detect magic is used, the checks are made with disadvantage.

I'm a mean DM.

I think I would add that you could cast identify on the wall to learn how to work it

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think I would add that you could cast identify on the wall to learn how to work it

Sure, if a player thought of that I would probably either have it work automatically, give them a hint to help out, or allow their checks to be made with advantage...

 

[Mort]

tbh this would most likely not show up in one of my games... but if it had to, it would be magic. I would foreshadow multi times that there are magic trick in this dungeon and short of a player by pur happenstance trigger it, they would have to (and I am sure they would) just walk around detecting magic

For this to be at all a "fair" challenge (as in the actually implementing in an adventure sense) there would have to be some kind of reason telegraphed that there is a room behind the wall, ideally multiple clues as such. The players find a map, the players see someone run into the corridor and when they investigate - no one is there, that sort of thing.

But let's assume the players have good reason to suspect there is a way past the wall - how do they go about finding out the way?

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think the handling of Difficultly Class is a key difference in DMing around these parts and may be getting in the way of understanding. Some feel the DC is set ahead of time - which makes sense based on how some rules and how the published adventures are written. Others feel that it is better to judge the DC of a task in the moment - which makes sense based on how Xanathar's publishes suggested DCs for tool applications, the fact that not every situation can be covered by a rule, and that not every possible character action can be encapsulated in a set DC for a given scene in a published adventure. Some likely sit on the fence between these two positions.

The table from the DMG (p 238):

It's your job to establish the Difficulty Class for an ability check or a saving throw when a rule or an adventure doesn't give you one. Sometimes you'll even want to change such established DCs. When you do so, think of how difficult a task is and then pick the associated DC from the Typical DCs table.

Typical DCs

Task	DC
Very easy	5
Easy	10
Moderate	15
Hard	20
Very hard	25
Nearly impossible	30

I'm in the second camp and feel the adventures far too often are gating important information or pathways behind seemingly set-in-stone DCs. I much prefer to set DCs in the moment based on the situation and the goal/approach of the PC. This also prevents any subconscious bias about a "set" DC needing to be overcome and allows clever play to bypass obstacles more often with auto-successes than mostly needing lucky rolls.


This topic probably deserves a thread of its own...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I was watching an episode of Stargate: Atlantis recently that had an interesting idea (IMO) for a secret door.

There is a hallway with a solid wall at the end.

As you walk to the solid wall at the end of the hallway, there are 3 lamps - set about 5 feet apart (one after the other - along the way to the solid wall). If you touch each lamp 1 after the other, as you are walking, (if you stop it doesn't work) and THEN walk "into" the wall, the wall is not solid (even though it still looks solid) and you walk into the next room.

@Charlaquin , @GMforPowergamers , @iserith - or anyone who wants to really.

If you were DMing, how would finding this "secret door," likely, work in your session? How would it look?

I game tuesday nights... I am going to ask my players what they would think if I ran this in a random corridor in a dungeon

mye guess is they would not like it but I will report back