D&D 5E "Doom Sun" − reconstructing a 5e Dark Sun setting for the DMs Guild

[Yaarel]

There were no gods involved in the origin of Athas, and there are no gods there now. But that does not prevent an 'interloper event' where some god(s) found Athas and tried to move in.

First, the mysterious beings could be gods. Second, demigods ARE gods. They're just the weakest kind in 2e.

I honestly dont understand why some players can be so obsessed with gods, and so driven to try force them on other players.

If players enjoy them, great. But why push them?

 

[Yaarel]

That being said, I love the nonthiestic ideas for the elements you have presented. They have inspired me.

I appreciate it.

What I want from the D&D 2024 edition, is for the Cleric class to become genuinely more accommodating to reallife cultural diversity. There are many different kinds of religion. There are significant ones that are nontheistic.

D&D 5e needs to be gentler and more accommodating about the topic of religion.

Most importantly, the player must have the freedom to decide the religiosity of ones own character.

When it comes to a character, the player and the DM need to both agree, about what concepts make sense for the character concept, and what concepts makes sense for the themes of a setting. The tension needs to lean toward each player to feel comfortable.

And, the DM needs a safespace and real gaming rules that SUPPORT the DM to decide the various religions that are in a particular setting.

It is disingenuous to say "the DM can decide", if it means a sisyphean amount of extra work, because almost every other paragraph keeps on pushing no choice except more gods.

It is a fantasy game, but it feels like religious coercion.

Just like some settings can feel too much like reallife racism, some settings can feel too much like reallife religious coercion.

 

[Maxperson]

I honestly dont understand why some players can be so obsessed with gods, and so driven to try force them on other players.

Nobody here, literally nobody, is trying to force them on you. We're showing you what the default setting says. What you do with it after is your own business.

 

[Yaarel]

Nobody here, literally nobody, is trying to force them on you. We're showing you what the default setting says. What you do with it after is your own business.

If the page makes gods as objectively existing, and literally every aspect of the story revolves around gods, and almost every other paragraph propagandizes gods again and again, that feels like "forcing" gods on D&D players.

 

[Maxperson]

If the page makes gods as objectively existing, and literally every aspect of the story revolves around gods, and almost every other paragraph propagandizes gods again and again, that feels like "forcing" gods on D&D players.

Um, one sentence talking about mysterious beings and demigods somewhere in the past of Athas is not, "and literally every aspect of the story revolves around gods, and almost every other paragraph propagandizes gods..." Such blatant hyperbole doesn't help you make your point.

 

[Yaarel]

Um, one sentence talking about mysterious beings and demigods somewhere in the past of Athas is not, "and literally every aspect of the story revolves around gods, and almost every other paragraph propagandizes gods..." Such blatant hyperbole doesn't help you make your point.

I am talking about how 5e (and to some degree 4e) continues to reinforce rules and narratives that feel religiously coercive.

When fantasy themes of religiosity become genocidal and intolerant, it can even be triggering.

Throwing people into the sun, because they refuse to convert?

No. That is not ok.

 

[dave2008]

I honestly dont understand why some players can be so obsessed with gods, and so driven to try force them on other players.

If players enjoy them, great. But why push them?

Yaarel, must admit that you are the one that seems to be the most obsessed with gods. You seem to want to codify them into a narrow definition and say this or that is or is not a god. You instance that their are no gods, is a form of deity obsession.

Crap, I just posted about gods again - sorry!

 

[dave2008]

I am talking about how 5e (and to some degree 4e) continues to reinforce rules and narratives that feel religiously coercive.

When fantasy themes of religiosity become genocidal and intolerant, it can even be triggering.

Throwing people into the sun, because they refuse to convert?

No. That is not ok.

I almost did it again!

 

[Eltab]

I honestly dont understand why some players can be so obsessed with gods, and so driven to try force them on other players.

If players enjoy them, great. But why push them?

You don't have to understand other players, you just have to recognize that what you desire for your table / DMspace is one of many desirable options. You are describing yours and they are describing theirs.

Third-party readers can pick and choose whatever sounds good to them, or craft their own version.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Most published D&D pantheons from established settings are heavily influenced by the Greco-Roman pantheon, because that and maybe Norse mythology are pretty much the major thing that folks back in the day would think of when it comes to representing gods. (outside of the heavy Christian influence that is also all over early D&D settings, of course).

Unfortunately the Greek pantheon is one of the worst collections of gods you'll find on Earth. "Ethically problematic" is almost generous as a description of them. The Greeks themselves basically decided they weren't worthy of worship and ended up looking for better gods. So any pantheon based on them as a model is going to turn out rough.

No, just so more much ignorance that statement. First off most ancient Greeks didn't have literalist interptations of Greek Mythology, just like a lot of modern Christians don't have literalist interruptations of the bible.

The Greeks didn't actually belief Zues was running away raping folks.

And the Greeks didn't go in search of new Gods, the Christians forcefully converted millions and killed those who wouldn't convert. Religious genocide isn't going for better Gods. Heck even moderate, reasonable, ethical Christians, were exiled and murdered.

And FR theology is far more complicated then your saying (to be fair its been very inconsistantly protrayed). FR Gods are a mix between Neoplatonist and Mythological theologies, with the ability to draw power from a variety of sources, including worshippers (though FR Gods are NOT Erogores/Thoughtforms) and their Platonic ideal or Logoi.

And the good Gods often object to stuff like the Wall of the False.