D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I think there is a cold reality that people don't want to accept about this, that i feel is true about how people actually feel about the Martial Caster gap.

People like it and think it should exist, Martials should not be at any point equal to the power of magic, only not limited by it, because thats what makes "magic" special in the eyes of a lot of people(i dont feel this way, but just noting the feeling, and how people feel about this stuff).

Magic is extraordinary, it's amazing, but if the martial can do what you do without magic, what makes magic, magic? Nothing.

I also think it breaks the reality of the world of a lot of people, magic is powerful because its extraordinary, but if the Martials are doing the same thing, what even is the world anymore?

The issue is them insisting on others play the BMX Bandit so their Angel Summoner can feel special. It's crappy and selfish and I just don't have any patience for it anymore.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I have changed my mind and everyone (who wants it) should shout to the mountain tops that they want a new class(es) with magical martial abilities.

First, what changed your mind?

Second, so Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, etc. isn't enough?

 

[Haplo781]

First, what changed your mind?

Second, so Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, etc. isn't enough?

"Martials are fine if they can cast spells" isn't a solution to martials being underpowered.

 

[TwoSix]

Second, so Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, etc. isn't enough?

I don't think the ask is for a martial with spells, the ask is for supernatural abilities that aren't skinned as magic.

"Magic" is a subset of all supernatural abilities in a fantasy setting. A vampire might have magical abilities like turning into mist or summoning wolves, but they don't "do magic" in the sense they have spellbooks and rituals and special reagents.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

It depends on what's wanted. If it's the classic "slams a heavy weapon in the ground to create a shockwave", well that's something almost spell-like, it probably should be a spell or require the use of a resource. I wouldn't mind if it was "you get a bunch of superiority die" for things are reasonably in the rules of reality, and something like the Warlock's spell slots for outright supernatural things like teleport around the battlefield or jump really high (possibly represented Misty Step and well the Jump spell).

 

[Celebrim]

Warlocks aren't magic?

90% of being a warlock would replicate a guy holding a blaster pistol. He can do something supernatural, but he can't really govern the world with his will. Warlocks in their initial conception lacked much in the way of narrative force. They had a fancy stick to hit things with, but it was still just a fancy stick.

 

[Haplo781]

It depends on what's wanted. If it's the classic "slams a heavy weapon in the ground to create a shockwave", well that's something almost spell-like, it probably should be a spell or require the use of a resource. I wouldn't mind if it was "you get a bunch of superiority die" for things are reasonably in the rules of reality, and something like the Warlock's spell slots for outright supernatural things like teleport around the battlefield or jump really high (possibly represented Misty Step and well the Jump spell).

I'm talking about mythic feats like "killing 500 men with a single sling stone" (Cú Chulainn) or "picking up a river and redirecting it with your bare goddamn hands" (Hercules).

 

[Celebrim]

but it's not a combat problem... it's an everything problem. It's travel, its' combat, it's choice at table it's choice at level up, it's social encounters, it's discovery/exploration...

Exactly my point. So no amount of making a fighter hit things with a stick better ever will solve the problem.

 

[Haplo781]

90% of being a warlock would replicate a guy holding a blaster pistol. He can do something supernatural, but he can't really govern the world with his will. Warlocks in their initial conception lacked much in the way of narrative force. They had a fancy stick to hit things with, but it was still just a fancy stick.

This begs the question of why "narrative force" is/should be inherently a function of spellcasting.

I posit that it shouldn't.

 

[dave2008]

First, what changed your mind?

The issue was never not want them, it was I didn't think it would happen with the minor changes to 2024 updates. However, then I realized all it takes is to add a class (and there are already good models to base it on). I'm doing many things at once so I just wasn't thinking clearly. Most of my thought was on $44 million project interview! That's done no, so I have more brain space!

Second, so Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Arcane Archer, etc. isn't enough?

You would have to ask someone else, but apparently not. Paladin definitely gets you close and if it was less religious themed and more just innate skill/power it would satisfy some of the posters.

However, I actually think the monk or warlock chassis is the best inspirations for what people are talking about. I started a martial class on these forums a few months ago that was based on the wizard chassis. Just as a proof of concept. Here it is:

The Warrior (or how to balance martial's and casters)​