D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[GMforPowergamers]

See also: every action sequence in RRR.

or every Fast and Furious movie... they have a real hate/hate relationship with physics

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm serious though. If you want change you have to organize. Simple discussion on these forums and responding to the surveys will not get you want you want. If you seriously want this for 5e, be serious about making it happen.

so am I (and even if I don't use it, unlike hammer I have my phone logged into twitter already)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Saitama doesn't need that wuxia crap. He just needs one serious punch.

Martial prowess isn't to be found in complex tricks, nor is the problem in the power level between casters and martial classes primarily a combat problem.

but it's not a combat problem... it's an everything problem. It's travel, its' combat, it's choice at table it's choice at level up, it's social encounters, it's discovery/exploration...

 

[Haplo781]

I also think it breaks the reality of the world of a lot of people, magic is powerful because its extraordinary, but if the Martials are doing the same thing, what even is the world anymore?

Fantasy.

 

[Haplo781]

Captain America and Batman are actually under powered if you plan on taking your campaign up to 20th level.

It's not possible to tone spellcasters down and still have them be spellcasters. If you take spells from spellcasters and just give them attacks with the color of magic - similar to the 3e Warlock in many ways - then sure you can have balance, but you won't have magic or genre emulation.

If you don't want Captain America or Batman, stop playing at 6th level. Then things will be fine. But the idea that you can get to 10th or 12th level and not have Captain America or Batman just needs to stop.

Warlocks aren't magic?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Fantasy.

Thank you!

Fantast is FANTASTIC, not just 'magical'.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think there is a cold reality that people don't want to accept about this, that i feel is true about how people actually feel about the Martial Caster gap.

People like it and think it should exist, Martials should not be at any point equal to the power of magic, only not limited by it, because thats what makes "magic" special in the eyes of a lot of people(i dont feel this way, but just noting the feeling, and how people feel about this stuff).

oh I know. It's not just fans but creators too... but before Covid I was seeing more and more new players see the issue in only a few sessions, and ask where the legendary warriors are... and when I explained you need to reskin a caster I saw the hurt in there eyes...

Magic is extraordinary, it's amazing, but if the martial can do what you do without magic, what makes magic, magic? Nothing.

I mean, the fact that it is magic... Does "Superman is punching through time" make Dr Fate not magical?

I also think it breaks the reality of the world of a lot of people, magic is powerful because its extraordinary, but if the Martials are doing the same thing, what even is the world anymore?

The argument that makes that fall apart is when I ask if a martial exploits could do what a 5th level spell does, but not be able to be picked by the fighter until level 17 (when full casters get 9th level) would that break the world... and for some the answer is YES

 

[TwoSix]

but it's not a combat problem... it's an everything problem. It's travel, its' combat, it's choice at table it's choice at level up, it's social encounters, it's discovery/exploration...

There are several problems, but I agree that the main one is that spells can be used to EITHER be combat-effective to a similar degree to martials OR exert strong control over the narrative via utility spells, and both modes can be done whenever the need arises. Martials can only be combat-effective, and only as effective at narrative control as skill checks allow them to be.

Ideally, martials would have strong permission-based narrative abilities also, or (my preferred solution) casters would simply be less effective at combat. Or at the very least, combat-focused casters and narrative control casters would be siloed into different classes.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Don't lump me in that group. I would be copletely fine with the return of 4e style martials. And I agreed, later in this thread I believe, that you could achieve this through a new class (I have actually done one on these forums: a fighter based on the wizard class).

Please don't make assumptions or make it personal.

PS - we only play with wizards and druids in our game, so there are only two PC caster class

My apologies for the assumptions. Just frustrated by being told what to order at a restaurant by some guy at another table.

 

[dave2008]

so am I (and even if I don't use it, unlike hammer I have my phone logged into twitter already)

twitter is not enough either. It needs to be coordinated and organized.