D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[DND_Reborn]

Again, a character with 20 strength is mechanically as powerful as an adult rhino and should be able to flip a Suburban as casually as you or I turns over a dining room chair.

(bold added)

Where are you getting that from???

I mean, I agree at the Captain America / Black Panther level, flipping a car is fine IMO.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wildemount and Tasha's, respectively.

That explains it.

 

[TwoSix]

(bold added)
Where are you getting that from???

An adult rhino has a 21 Str.

 

[Haplo781]

Fine, even by your limited metric...

Ranger:
Natural Explorer - you can't become lost except by magic. That is pretty good, most people I know can, in fact, become lost by mundane means.

Hide in Plain Sight grants +10 to Hide (just like pass without trace) because of the Ranger's skill.

Feral Senses awareness of invisible creatures (akin to see invisible) due to preternatural senses.

Multiattack allows you to attack up to 26 targets as an action (Volley, but just 8 for Whirlwind Attack).

You might not think such features are "enough" for you, but there are there.

Fine for the ranger (who BTW... Is also a spellcaster) but the rogue and fighter don't get anything like that outside of specific subclasses.

 

[Haplo781]

Were are you getting that from??

Rhinoceros stat block. See attachment.

I mean, I agree at the Captain America / Black Panther level, flipping a car is fine IMO.

Ok. So if we agree that that's a reasonable baseline for a level 4-6 fighter, then we have to ask what it looks like, practically, for a human(oid) being to be that strong. Because at that point, you're crumpling plate armor with unarmed strikes.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Even if we could do that, and get the flavor right, it still wouldn't be as much narrative force as Wanda. The writer can always use Wanda as a plot device without suspending disbelief. The examples you cite are just schticks, like hitting something with a hammer. See Thor's interaction with Dr. Strange to see what I mean.

I chose Steve for my example because he gets that flavor of being a Fighter right, where as Spidey to me feels more like a sorcerer whose spells all have a spider theme (especially in versions when his webs are not tech).

Wanda's plot manipulation with the darkhold is dangerous and corrupting though. There's a risk to it, and she only does the mind manipulation as a villain. Otherwise her plot manipulation is telekinetic in nature. Shields, throwing, stuff and dealing damage.

Steve's plot manipulation is leadership and inspiring others to do better. "Hey, there's a group of bystanders that I organize or are rallied by my presence to do this task". Or "hey a servant in the villain's castle who decided to risk their life and told me about this secret passage" In FATE/Savage Worlds he'd just pay a plot coupon/chip and narrate it.

DM's are apparently terrified of sharing authority unless the plot coupon is a spell.

 

[DND_Reborn]

An adult rhino has a 21 Str.

True, but still a Large Rhino is not mechanically as powerful as a medium 20 STR character.

STR 20 PC = 600 lbs
STR 21 Rhino = 1260 lbs

Even if you are talking about shoving, etc. the Rhino can attempt to shove a Huge creature, which a medium-sized PC can't even attempt.

Now, if you go beyond RAW to the commonly accepted houserule (IME anyway), the Rhino as a 4-legged creature is doubled again to over 2500 lbs...

Fine for the ranger (who BTW... Is also a spellcaster) but the rogue and fighter don't get anything like that outside of specific subclasses.

Look, your "metric" is already restrictive enough and of your own choosing, so I'm not going to spend my free time justifying each option to you, especially when you will just keep justifying to yourself how they don't meet your standards.

 

[Haplo781]

True, but still a Large Rhino is not mechanically as powerful as a medium 20 STR character.

STR 20 PC = 600 lbs
STR 21 Rhino = 1260 lbs

Even if you are talking about shoving, etc. the Rhino can attempt to shove a Huge creature, which a medium-sized PC can't even attempt.

They have the same strength mod, so they have the same bonus to attack, damage, and strength checks. So you can say what you want, but a fighter still, RAW, hits hard enough to do this.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It'd still be nice if a maximum STR fighter was as physically capable as normal dudes in our actual world who lift, bro.

 

[DND_Reborn]

They have the same strength mod, so they have the same bonus to attack, damage, and strength checks. So you can say what you want, but a fighter still, RAW, hits hard enough to do this.

Only if the car weighs less than 600 lbs. since that is their limit to push, pull, drag; otherwise RAW they can't, say what you want.

It'd still be nice if a maximum STR fighter was as physically capable as normal dudes in our actual world who lift, bro.

I agree, that would be nice... We house-ruled it so they can, FWIW.