D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Medic]

Wouldn't the save DC be 19 (or higher, if you have one of those DC boosting items from Tasha's)?

You're 100% correct. It's also possible to jump it up further with the items found in Tasha's. I don't want to mutate this into another TCE thread however, so I'm just going to say "I don't really like them" and leave it at that.

8 + 6 proficiency + 5 Intelligence = 19, at least.

Even so, he'll probably save most of the time, but even that isn't necessarily a problem for a Wizard with Simulacrum, True Polymorph, Forcecage and all that. Orcus doesn't have a teleport in his statblock from what I can tell, so he'd have to rely on a summon to get him out of a Forcecage, definitely an issue if he's caught unaware.

I agree. He can summon a bunch of liches instead of dracoliches who could probably Dimension Door him out and use Counterspells to protect him from high level spells, but this is something that will probably fly over most DMs' heads when put on the spot.

Garbage monster design is another major issue with 5e that deserves its own thread.

You don't enjoy beating on blobs of meat?

 

[Maxperson]

See, this is the thing:

The only 'cartoon' things I see here are:

The guy using the D&D equivalent of a magic weapon -- which means he's doing the thing people keep saying the fighter should do and he's still getting flack for it.

The guy throwing a small, heavy thing

And the guy jumping through a hoop like happens every night at 6:30 at Cirque de Sol Le.

So I love Cirque de Sol Le and they do some amazing things, none of which include jumping through a variable sized hoop that is moving at a random height and speed that they are not prepared for or practiced time and time again.

Another cartoon thing was managing to grab the rope, open it and pull it over his head all before energy moved 15 feet down the rope.

 

[Haplo781]

I confess to not having played any high level wizards, but I have a hard time seeing how the high level 5e Wizard does quite as much as Dr. Strange does (although I'm having a hard time parsing out what the items do vs. what he does) and certainly not what Wanda does.

And sure, Conan was just a poor villager from the sticks and Steve Rogers was a scrawny kid from the Bronx, but that seems like underselling them a bit?

9th level spells can do the following:

• render you invulnerable to all damage for 10 minutes
• grant a creature advantage on all d20 rolls for 8 hours, as well as inflict disadvantage on attacks targeting it and making it immune to surprise, no concentration needed
• permanently imprison a creature deep underground in a small bubble just large enough to contain it, which is impervious to teleportation and planar travel
• deal 40d6 damage (half on a save) to everything within 4 separate 40-foot spheres up to a mile away from you

That's just a tiny sampling of the ridiculous crap a level 17+ wizard can do.

That's far beyond anything we've seen anyone do in a Marvel movie. And there's nothing a fighter, rogue, monk, or barbarian can do that even remotely compares.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Interacting with the magic item is unrealistic now.

 

[Haplo781]

You don't enjoy beating on blobs of meat?

No. No I do not.

If absolutely nothing else from 4e makes it into 1DD, the approach to monster design absolutely should. Even a level 35 solo monster only lasts about 5 -6 rounds against an average party of level 30 adventurers.

 

[Cadence]

9th level spells can do the following:

• render you invulnerable to all damage for 10 minutes
• grant a creature advantage on all d20 rolls for 8 hours, as well as inflict disadvantage on attacks targeting it and making it immune to surprise, no concentration needed
• permanently imprison a creature deep underground in a small bubble just large enough to contain it, which is impervious to teleportation and planar travel
• deal 40d6 damage (half on a save) to everything within 4 separate 40-foot spheres up to a mile away from you

That's just a tiny sampling of the ridiculous crap a level 17+ wizard can do.

20th level Wizard gets two 7th, one 8th, one 9th, chosen in advance, and gets to cast one per round?

Lots of high level monsters resist various things pretty well? (Imprisonment takes a minute to cast and gives a save?)

 

[Maxperson]

Interacting with the magic item is unrealistic now.

Not what I said.

 

[Haplo781]

20th level Wizard gets two 7th, one 8th, one 9th, chosen in Advance, and gets to cast one per round?

Lots of high level monsters resist various things pretty well?

And fighters don't have anything comparable for monsters to have a resistance to. What's your point?

 

[payn]

No. No I do not.

If absolutely nothing else from 4e makes it into 1DD, the approach to monster design absolutely should. Even a level 35 solo monster only lasts about 5 -6 rounds against an average party of level 30 adventurers.

Oh man, I wish that was my 4E experience.

 

[Cadence]

And fighters don't have anything comparable for monsters to have a resistance to. What's your point?

Imprisonment takes a minute to cast and the bad guy gets a save. They can try it once per day. Anyway, seems a lot lower than "god" or "Dr. Strange"

Sure, fighters can't do that. What martial thing do you want them to do that would be comparable? And sure, I'm happy to bump martials up a bit or better, knock Wizards down some. Having fighters be able to clap their hands so hard it creates a mini back hole to trap bad guys doesn't feel like something I'd go for.

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