D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Haplo781]

Sure, fighters can't do that. What martial thing do you want them to do that would be comparable?

Hit a guy in the head so hard he's stunned. Gash his brow so he's blinded by his own blood. Issue a challenge that compels enemies to approach, or let out a bloodcurdling scream that inflicts fright. Grapple a dragon. Run past half a dozen enemies with my sword out, slashing them as I pass too quickly for them to react. Deal half damage on a missed attack. Gain extra reactions. Use a reaction to pursue an enemy who tries to disengage. Use a reaction to attack someone who attacks an ally. Create a whirling wall of steel, dealing automatic damage to all enemies within 5 feet at the start of my turn. Hamstring with an attack, slowing or immobilizing the target. Hit a guy so hard he goes flying into his buddies and scatters them like bowling pins. Jump 30 feet straight up from a standing start in plate armor. Knock a hole in a castle wall.

None of these things are out of line with what wizards can do. I'm even willing to have limited uses per day.

 

[Cadence]

Hit a guy in the head so hard he's stunned. Gash his brow so he's blinded by his own blood. Issue a challenge that compels enemies to approach, or let out a bloodcurdling scream that inflicts fright. Grapple a dragon. Run past half a dozen enemies with my sword out, slashing them as I pass too quickly for them to react. Deal half damage on a missed attack. Gain extra reactions. Use a reaction to pursue an enemy who tries to disengage. Use a reaction to attack someone who attacks an ally. Create a whirling wall of steel, dealing automatic damage to all enemies within 5 feet at the start of my turn. Hamstring with an attack, slowing or immobilizing the target. Hit a guy so hard he goes flying into his buddies and scatters them like bowling pins. Jump 30 feet straight up from a standing start in plate armor. Knock a hole in a castle wall.

None of these things are out of line with what wizards can do. I'm even willing to have limited uses per day.

Most of those don't seem bad to me. (I assume the actual wording would be different on the bowling pins one, the 30' straight up jump in plate armor seems a bit much, and ditto for the castle wall).

 

[Minigiant]

Second sentence is harsher than I would have phrased it, but sure. Is a lot of it also folks who don't want their martials to have to develop into Hulk or Thor either (and don't have control over what the casters do)?

The real and pure issue is

What is the 18 HD CR 12 warrior equivalent to this:

Spoiler

 

[MGibster]

There's more to anime than DBZ.
DBZ to me is post level 30 to me.
Regular Dragon Ball, FotNS, Demon Slayer, and Naruto (Chunin and down) is well within the level 1-20 parameters.

I completely forgot there was regular Dragon Ball. At any rate, I know there's more to anime than DBZ. I grew up with Gigantor, Robotech, Speed Racer, and a few other shows I can't remember the titles to.

 

[Haplo781]

And so, like I said: "Whatever the peak is, what motivational fiction do power levels enable, and what motivational fiction does it depreciate?"

By what you say, the current game apparently depreciates Fafhrd and Mouser and Conan being much of anything in the grand scheme of heroic things. Which is fine if that's what it is. (And hence my liking the two editions of the game idea, even if it will never happen.)

Would be interesting to see what's left in the inspirational reading list if it's down to series that are at least set in a world that has all 4 tiers as a thing the great heroes do.

"Leveling up" is a uniquely RPG concept. You don't really see it in media that isn't either an RPG itself or heavily influenced by/adapted from one.

The model here should really be RPG video games like Final Fantasy or Dragon Age.

Most of those don't seem bad to me. (I assume the actual wording would be different on the bowling pins one, the 30' straight up jump in plate armor seems a bit much, and ditto for the castle wall).

Wizards can straight up fly at 5th level and teleport anywhere on the same plane of existence at 11th.

 

[Cadence]

The real and pure issue is

What is the 18 HD CR 12 warrior equivalent to this:

Spoiler

View attachment 258603

Why isn't the real question why the world has things like that in it?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

And the spell casters need to have cantrips and defenses every round that are as impressive as what the martials at the same level have?

Their cantrips scale, and they can cast a bonus action spell the same turn as an attack cantrip. Mage Armor and Shield exist. Plenty of casting classes/subclasses get armor proficiencies. In my experience, it's harder to hit a Wizard than it is a martial character, because Wizards can use spells and subclass abilities to substantially increase their defense, while martial characters generally have static defense capabilities.

Second sentence is harsher than I would have phrased it, but sure. Is a lot of it also folks who don't want their martials to have to develop into Hulk or Thor either (and don't have control over what the casters do)?

Then pause leveling at the level you like playing at, and don't let them get those abilities.

If you're fine with casters getting reshaping the world abilities, you should be fine with martial characters doing the same. This is a game, and one person's fun (casters with high level spells) shouldn't take away from another person's (the fighter just getting another attack).

 

[Maxperson]

Because D&D worlds allow for greater feats than are accomplishable in the real world.

Right. Which prevents equivalences. Nobody alive does things that are equivalent to taking on Orcus solo. Even Elminster would probably lose that fight.

 

[MGibster]

Right. Which prevents equivalences. Nobody alive does things that are equivalent to taking on Orcus solo. Even Elminster would probably lose that fight.

Well I sure don't have a chance now if you take my crits away!

 

[Minigiant]

Why isn't the real question why the world has things like that in it?

Archmages created 1-5% of the monsters in most settings. So they have to be included.

But if someone asks for the martial equivalent of an archmage, fans argue about what is not allowed and don't create the archwarrior.