D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

[Celebrim]

Well Hercules when from Zero to Hero. There's even a song.. a good song.

My brother is of the opinion that movie is the worst movie ever made. I'm not at all sure that he is wrong.

Hercules just power-grinds to level 10 like most of the legendary heroes.

No, no he doesn't. The Nemean Lion was an immortal monster with divine parentage - the offspring of no less than Ceto and Typhon. It was immune to any mortal weapon. Like your +5 sword would literally break if you tried to kill the Nemean Lion with it, and it's claws would destroy any mortal armor that it hit. The first labor was intended to be a suicide mission, something impossible to achieve. In D&D terms it was like CR 25. So Heracles killed it with his bare hands as his first mission, and really, it's not clear Heracles got any XP from doing so, just a cool trophy. He was born a demi-god. He didn't level up to gain those powers.

 

[Minigiant]

My brother is of the opinion that movie is the worst movie ever made. I'm not at all sure that he is wrong.



No, no he doesn't. The Nemean Lion was an immortal monster with divine parentage - the offspring of no less than Ceto and Typhon. It was immune to any mortal weapon. Like your +5 sword would literally break if you tried to kill the Nemean Lion with it, and it's claws would destroy any mortal armor that it hit. The first labor was intended to be a suicide mission, something impossible to achieve. In D&D terms it was like CR 25. So Heracles killed it with his bare hands as his first mission, and really, it's not clear Heracles got any XP from doing so, just a cool trophy. He was born a demi-god. He didn't level up to gain those powers.

Hercules grinded before the labors.

That's the issue with most legends and stories not written specifics for children. The story skips the boring training montage.

Hercules goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Asclepius goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Jason goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Achilles goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Captain America gets super serum. But the Army still needed to train him to fight, shoot, lead, and plan.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Hercules grinded before the labors.

That's the issue with most legends and stories not written specifics for children. The story skips the boring training montage.

Hercules goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Asclepius goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Jason goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Achilles goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

Captain America gets super serum. But the Army still needed to train him to fight, shoot, lead, and plan.

Kinda like how Sorcerers inherently have magical potential, but have to hone their powers through training.

 

[Oofta]

Ah, yet another "Fighters suck" thread.

I like playing martial characters who explicitly do not rely on supernatural abilities. There are already plenty of options for supernatural warriors.

One of the things I grew to dislike in 4e was that until Essentials (which we never really used) there was no option to play what felt to me like a straight martial character.

The power level some people want from the hypothetical mythical warrior (and how would you differentiate them from other classes/subclasses?) is not something that I think fits D&D's style of play. How do you balance out someone that has godlike abilities?

In any case, if you want changes pay attention to the UA articles coming out when they get to classes. Let your opinion be known. I know I will be.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I like playing martial characters who explicitly do not rely on supernatural abilities. There are already plenty of options for supernatural warriors.

Then play at lower levels when they wouldn't have access to the "supernatural" abilities.

One of the things I grew to dislike in 4e was that until Essentials (which we never really used) there was no option to play what felt to me like a straight martial character.

The power level some people want from the hypothetical mythical warrior (and how would you differentiate them from other classes/subclasses?) is not something that I think fits D&D's style of play. How do you balance out someone that has godlike abilities?

In the same way Spellcasters are balanced.

 

[Oofta]

Then play at lower levels when they wouldn't have access to the "supernatural" abilities.

In the same way Spellcasters are balanced.

I don't want supernatural ever fighters with no option to play a mundane fighter ever again. "Just don't play" isn't an answer either.

As far as mythical warriors, I don't know how being able to literally split a mountain in two with a sword blow would ever fit the game.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[Celebrim]

Hercules grinded before the labors.

That's the issue with most legends and stories not written specifics for children. The story skips the boring training montage.

Hercules goes to the mountain to train with Chiron.

You assume I have ever read the stories for children.

Chiron didn't teach Heracles the strength to choke the Numean Lion or to bear the world on his back. Chiron was to Heracles more of a finishing school where he got his proficiency in Medicine, before, you know, accidentally killing his teacher.

 

[Minigiant]

Ah, yet another "Fighters suck" thread.

It's not really.

It's more a thread about where does a fighter's strength come from (skill, items, origin) and how powerful those powers should be.

 

[Minigiant]

You assume I have ever read the stories for children.

Chiron didn't teach Heracles the strength to choke the Numean Lion or to bear the world on his back. Chiron was to Heracles more of a finishing school where he got his proficiency in Medicine, before, you know, accidentally killing his teacher.

Chiron didn't teach Heracles strengh.He was born with 40 STR and "Demigod of Strength" which let him lift like a gargantuan creature.

But there was a point when Heracles was a level 1 fighter. He just had 40 STR. 40 STR at level 1.

 

[Celebrim]

But there was a point when Heracles was a level 1 fighter. He just had 40 STR. 40 STR at level 1.

Ok, sure, but it was when he was an infant. He leveled up in the cradle.

Fundamentally you are trying to shoehorn D&D mechanics into a story that wasn't built with them as if D&D was actually a generic system for describing anything and everything. Some stories aren't stories that can be told with player character mechanics. Not every story fits D&D.