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D&D 5E Being strong and skilled is a magic of its own or, how I learned to stop worrying and love anime fightin' magic

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More MCU Thor who is just an alien.
Superman is alao "just" an alien. One that, depending on author, can extinguish a star with his super breath and pull multiple planets through space.

If we had epic levels, perhaps Thor like powers (especially as presented in later movies) would make sense. Not for 20th level, at least not for me.

The power difference between fighters an wizards is overblown IMHO, but that's been argued ad-nauseum. One is the infantry that protects and contributes significantly, the others are designed to be glass cannons.
 

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Superman is alao "just" an alien. One that, depending on author, can extinguish a star with his super breath and pull multiple planets through space.

If we had epic levels, perhaps Thor like powers (especially as presented in later movies) would make sense. Not for 20th level, at least not for me.

The power difference between fighters an wizards is overblown IMHO, but that's been argued ad-nauseum. One is the infantry that protects and contributes significantly, the others are designed to be glass cannons.
My issue again is less about wizards and more that the 20th level fighter doesn't represent a weaponsmater nor armorsmaster.

The 20th level fighter is weaker than Hawkeye who is at best level 10, has no powers, and only has one ability score above 15 (Dexterity 20) due to the fighter being hamstrung in order to be simple for noobs.and appease people who ban barbarians
 

My issue again is less about wizards and more that the 20th level fighter doesn't represent a weaponsmater nor armorsmaster.

The 20th level fighter is weaker than Hawkeye who is at best level 10, has no powers, and only has one ability score above 15 (Dexterity 20) due to the fighter being hamstrung in order to be simple for noobs.and appease people who ban barbarians
Do you ever get tired of insulting the devs and people who happen to like the fighter as is? You can say that you don't care for the design without the ridicule.
 

If we had epic levels, perhaps Thor like powers (especially as presented in later movies) would make sense. Not for 20th level, at least not for me.
Problem is it seems like 5e does and does not have epic.The flavor text/presented of the 4th tier in 5e is a fairly close to that of 4e's epic levels, and wizard having wish spells and similar things (feel like they are there already). I mean what are you going to do for spells for these over 20th level characters? I know they do not get any ... ahem does not sound so interesting. Kind of like fighters having only maneuvers appropriate for level 3
 

Do you ever get tired of insulting the devs and people who happen to like the fighter as is? You can say that you don't care for the design without the ridicule.
I'm not insulting the devs not the people who like the current fighter.

I am just a bit annoyed of fans who say the fighter cannot use X as an example or Y as an example or the fighter should have A B and C but offer no example of a high level fighter of their own perception.

A constructive conversation about a game aspect usually in example explaining what a speaker wants along with what they don't want
 

Problem is it seems like 5e does and does not have epic.The flavor text/presented of the 4th tier in 5e is a fairly close to that of 4e's epic levels, and wizard having wish spells and similar things (feel like they are there already). I mean what are you going to do for spells for these over 20th level characters? I know they do not get any ... ahem does not sound so interesting. Kind of like fighters having only maneuvers appropriate for level 3
Spells for after 20.

Improved Wish..allows you to wish for more wishes

Divine Entrepeneurship..Select one deity.. You are now their boss. Make a schedule and put them to work.

Inadvertent Apocalypse.. for the next millennium, all your AoE damage spells have a planetary area of effect.

Until we get stuff like this, we'll never see the epic tier of D&D gameplay.. We'll only be able to:
  • Resurrect any creature no matter how long its been dead using a random toenail clipping.
  • Create a cubic mile of whatever illusory stuff we want any place we can see that just stays there for 10 days.
  • Take a vacation in heaven or hell
  • Turn into a dragon..forever
  • Break reality
  • Raise castles from the ground
  • Control the weather
  • Reverse gravity..
  • Cause localized earthquakes
 
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I'm not insulting the devs not the people who like the current fighter.

I am just a bit annoyed of fans who say the fighter cannot use X as an example or Y as an example or the fighter should have A B and C but offer no example of a high level fighter of their own perception.

A constructive conversation about a game aspect usually in example explaining what a speaker wants along with what they don't want
Right. It's just that fighters are hamstrung. The only people that play fighters are noobs who don't know any better or people that don't have the option to play barbarians. :rolleyes:
 

Right. It's just that fighters are hamstrung. The only people that play fighters are noobs who don't know any better or people that don't have the option to play barbarians. :rolleyes:
That's not what I've said that that tone is precisely the point.

The Fighter class has 3 unique class features. This is the least of all classes. And with that these class features are some of the simplest to understand.


The issue is fighting in real life is not simple. And advanced high end fighting is even more complex. But 5e doesn't and cannot display this due to the design goal restrictions on the class.

On Height there is Bounded Accuracy. Because of Bonuses accuracy, you cannot even abstract the fighter' increated skill with the higher "to hit" or AC like the pass. The most the base class gets is a fighting style that offers +2 to hit with ranged weapons or +2 AC. Subclasses mostly offer limited use advantage to attack or a resource to roll a die to the to hit roll.

On Depth it is Noob Friendliness. Basically the a significant part of community (not the designers, they attempted a Superiority dice base class feature in the fighter multiple times) deemed that the fighter most be the class for new players and (tipsy players). Therefore there had to be a core design of simplicity in options. And complexity added to the fighter therefore had to be balance to a fighter with a simple core class and a simple subclass. Most other RPGs, TT, P&P and Video game, shifted to having the barbarian be the noob class. Many have even done simple classes. Why isn't there a simple pew pew cantrip spammer?

And in Width is the Combat Idiot. Basically there is a subset of the fandom who thinks the fighter could have a choosable base combat role. Guard fighters are lookouts. Scout fighters can sneak with the rogue. Noble fighters could be faces. Athlete fighters jump and carry the team literally. Etc. They wanted the fighter to have this be a choosable core option of the fighter. And there is a section of the fandom that HATES this idea. They want the core fighter too be balanced around being an unskilled combat monster who just fights.

The Fourth Dimension is Mundane. We all know it. Some want the fighter to remain noticeably in reality. Others want it to break it a little. Others want it to break a lot


None of these are bad alone. But ALL 4 together is limiting. And the community mostly agrees. Almost every group, DM, and player has a house rule, play style, or bias that removes or lessens one of these. I'm sure you do too.


So why do we have a fighter class binded on 4 dimensions without any keys to unlock a side if almost every fan wants to break one of the doors?
 
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That's not what I've said that that tone is precisely the point.

The Fighter class has 3 unique class features. This is the least of all classes. And with that these class features are some of the simplest to understand.


The issue is fighting in real life is not simple. And advanced high end fighting is even more complex. But 5e doesn't and cannot display this due to the design goal restrictions on the class.

On Height there is Bonuses Accuracy. Because of Bonuses accuracy, you cannot even abstract the fighter' increated skill with the higher "to hit" or AC like the pass. The most the base class gets is a fighting style that offers +2 to hit with ranged weapons or +2 AC. Subclasses mostly offer limited use advantage to attack or a resource to roll a die to the to hit roll.

On Depth is Noob Friendliness. Basically the a significant part of community (not the designers, they attempted a Superiority dice base class feature in the fighter multiple times) deemed that the fighter most be the class for new players and (tipsy players). Therefore there had to be a core design of simplicity in options. And complexity added to the fighter therefore had to be balance to a fighter with a simple core class and a simple subclass. Most other RPGs, TT, P&P and Video game, shifted to having the barbarian be the noob class. Many have even done simple classes. Why isn't there a simple pew pew cantrip spammer?

And in Width is the Combat idiot. Basically there is a subset of the fandom who thinks the fighter could have a choosable base combat role. Guard fighters are lookouts. Scout fighters can sneak with the rogue. Noble fighters could be faces. Athlete fighters jump and carry the team literally. Etc. They wanted the fighter to have this be a choosable core option of the fighter. And there is a section of the fandom that HATES this idea. They want the core fighter too be balanced around being an unskilled combat monster who just fights.

The Fourth Dimension is Mundane. We all know it. Some want the fighter to remain noticeably in reality. Others want it to break it a little. Others want it to break a lot


None of these are bad alone. But ALL 4 together is limiting. And the community mostly agrees. Almost every group, DM, and player has a house rule, play style, or bias that removes or lessens one of these. I'm sure you do too.


So why do we have a fighter class binded on 4 dimensions without any keys to unlock a side if almost every fan wants to break one of the doors?
Unlike you, I don't assume to know what "almost every fan" wants. I know what I want. I know what people that I've played with want. I, and the people I actually game with, are happy with the fighter as is. No house rules involved.
 

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