D&D (2024) Playtest: Is the Human Terrible?

[Blue]

The playtest so fat is focused on playing new bits with older material in the same character, let alone table.

Using old options likw Race or Class is fine. Old Feats might be a bridge too far...but those are a neglected variant rule in 2014 as it is.

We're talking about the 2024 Anniversary Edition, the full thing. Stalker0's quote was "Oh its getting nerfed into the ground....because its going to be gone There will likely only be one human going forward.", and I continued to talk about the same scope they were.

 

[Parmandur]

We're talking about the 2024 Anniversary Edition, the full thing. Stalker0's quote was "Oh its getting nerfed into the ground....because its going to be gone There will likely only be one human going forward.", and I continued to talk about the same scope they were.

Yeah, I don't think WotC expects any option to go anywhere: they are interested in selling e-tools, after all.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, I guess losing their GWM or another ''build'' feat may have that effect. But I think that is quite telling of the problematic nature of some feats at level 1: they are so good that anything else will look like a huge nerf to some players.

Yeah the only reason I allow all feats at level 1 is that my group doesn’t have anyone that would take sharpshooter over something more interesting.

But what about compared to the other playtest races, because that seems to be an issue for him too (that the human is weaker, specifically).

Definitely not.

He chose eldritch adept. I don't even know what that is.

Not a super strong feat, but def wouldn’t break anything to allow as a level 1 feat.

They aren't really worth a feat though. I assume they will be part of backgrounds?

Either that or they’ll combine proficiency and a specialization benefit, or a weapon master feat that gives 3 weapons and a bonus benefit.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If it's one edition, it's one edition. That's like saying "well if you use new stuff like the Centaur from MotM you can't use old sub classes like from Xanathar's or the PHB".

If you want things that are not compatible with another - that's a different edition. Which I think it is.

Which is why it will all be fine to play together.

Because it’s one edition.

 

[Mistwell]

Everyone insists that this is the same edition and that it's not a half-edition shift, so the old human and vHuman are still in play as well as part of the edition.

Though I'm with you, that it's really a half edition shift and the PHB2014 options should no longer be available.

It's a half-edition shift. The dispute seems to be more about whether it's 6e or 5.5e. I say 5.5e.

I mean, already with this playtest we have a ton of stuff which is simply not compatible. If you have a class which turns crits against you into non-crits, that's not compatible with foes no longer critting you. If you have a class which grants advantage of strength checks to initiate or escape a grapple, that's not compatible with grapple being moved to attacks and saves. If you have a feat from Xanathar's which doesn't have a level indicator, will they even update Xanathar's feats with level tags? And that's just half of the incompatibilities in just the first playtest package.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's a half-edition shift. The dispute seems to be more about whether it's 6e or 5.5e. I say 5.5e.

I mean, already with this playtest we have a ton of stuff which is simply not compatible. If you have a class which turns crits against you into non-crits, that's not compatible with foes no longer critting you.

Arguable, since we don’t know if those will be updated, or if the full new crit rules will make it fit.

If you have a class which grants advantage of strength checks to initiate or escape a grapple, that's not compatible with grapple being moved to attacks and saves.

You still make a check to escape a grapple, and to initiate it. At most they may need to errata some features to take out the “strength (athletics) check” before “to initiate a grapple”.

If you have a feat from Xanathar's which doesn't have a level indicator, will they even update Xanathar's feats with level tags? And that's just half of the incompatibilities in just the first playtest package.

So a hypothetical incompatibility, maybe?

Please list the rest. I’m pretty sure these minor erratas (at worst) are far more than half of the full list of supposed incompatibilities between the playtest and the existing rules.

 

[Mistwell]

Arguable, since we don’t know if those will be updated, or if the full new crit rules will make it fit.

You still make a check to escape a grapple, and to initiate it. At most they may need to errata some features to take out the “strength (athletics) check” before “to initiate a grapple”.

So a hypothetical incompatibility, maybe?

Please list the rest. I’m pretty sure these minor erratas (at worst) are far more than half of the full list of supposed incompatibilities between the playtest and the existing rules.

I am saying if you right now attempt to play the playtest rules along with your existing PCs, they will immediately need a house rule to make some of them work.

Here's some more.

You have a Variant Human or Custom Lineage feat that is a half-feat with a bonus to an ability score so you could start with an 18 in that stat at first level. Not compatible with these playtest rules.

Adamantine Armor - Does nothing now.

Spore Druid Fungal Body class feature (14th lev) - Most important part of it now does nothing, and there is no easy house rule to address that. And as it's from a supplement, and we have no indication they will be updating every subclass in every supplement, it may just end up staying that way.

Grave Cleric Sentinel at Death’s Door class feature (6th level) - does nothing now, there is no easy house rule to address that, and as it's a supplement may never seen an update.

The grapple issue impacts raging barbarians, rune knights using giants might, heck even the plasmoid from Spelljammer release literally the same week as these playtest rules has an ability that is no longer compatible with these rules.

We have a TON of issues with short rests being phased to be only for hit dice recovery and not for restoring certain powers on a short rest. All those things in books outside the core 3, we have no reason to believe they're all going to get updated. So they're directly in contradiction to the new core philosophy of not encouraging short rests for regeneration of powers.
Clockwork sorcerer chooses from certain spell lists which may no longer exist once they shift to arcane, divine and primal spell lists.

And this is just the first playtest package of 11-17 more monthly packages. My greatest concern is for all those supplements that are not the core 3. We know they will replace the core 3, but will they offer an update or errata for all the other books or just leave them behind like they did for 3e when 3.5e came out? I think it's reasonable to assume the later.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I am saying if you right now attempt to play the playtest rules along with your existing PCs, they will immediately need a house rule to make some of them work.

Folks are doing it, right now. I’m seeing very little rules conflicts, all easily handled, all easy to see how it will likely be sorted out when playtest becomes published book.

Treantmonk will soon be coming out with a video which lists a lot more incompatibilities (already available to his Patreon subscribers.)

Good for treatmonk, I guess. I’ve never been impressed by his 5e insights.

He seems to be having fun, though, so that’s good.

 

[Mistwell]

Folks are doing it, right now. I’m seeing very little rules conflicts, all easily handled, all easy to see how it will likely be sorted out when playtest becomes published book.

Good for treatmonk, I guess. I’ve never been impressed by his 5e insights.

He seems to be having fun, though, so that’s good.

Sorry I was editing my response while you responded to it. I listed them now.
No idea what you think is easy to do about an ability that negates crits, for example. Ask 5 DMs I bet you get 5 different ideas.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sorry I was editing my response while you responded to it. I listed them now.
No idea what you think is easy to do about an ability that negates crits, for example. Ask 5 DMs I bet you get 5 different ideas.

Sure. So what?

That’s true of a lot of 5e now.

Edit: sorry, that was flippant.

There are very few such abilities in the game, there are many ways to make it work for a single PC, and it’s the first pages of a playtest.

Like, if they invalidate the Grave Cleric, rather than either the playtest crit rule changing or the Grave Cleric mitigating hits in a slightly different way, etc, I will Venmo you $10.