D&D (2024) Playtest: Is the Human Terrible?

[Mistwell]

Sure. So what?

That’s true of a lot of 5e now.

That's not a fair answer. It's an incompatibility between the playtest and the old rules. They're telling us we can use all the old rules with the new ones. No, we can't. Not without house ruling a bunch of stuff. You won't agree. So let's just wait and see how compatible it is in 6 months.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's not a fair answer. It's an incompatibility between the playtest and the old rules. They're telling us we can use all the old rules with the new ones. No, we can't. Not without house ruling a bunch of stuff. You won't agree. So let's just wait and see how compatible it is in 6 months.

Yes, we can.

You don’t have to play a grave cleric to use the older rules with the playtest. In fact, I’d recommend sticking mostly to the 2014 PHB, because like they’ve always done in 5e, they probably focused mostly on the PHB when checking these ideas against existing rules.

There are not dozens of incompatibilities. There are a few, that we have no reason to think will stay incompatible even if everything in the origins playtest is approved by the community.

 

[Mistwell]

Yes, we can.

You don’t have to play a grave cleric to use the older rules with the playtest. In fact, I’d recommend sticking mostly to the 2014 PHB, because like they’ve always done in 5e, they probably focused mostly on the PHB when checking these ideas against existing rules.

There are not dozens of incompatibilities. There are a few, that we have no reason to think will stay incompatible even if everything in the origins playtest is approved by the community.

Why do you think they will update or errata every single supplement book outside the Core 3? They didn't in prior shifts like this. They've given no indication they plan to this time. So what makes you think existing PCs built using older supplement books will still be compatible with the new version of the game?

You think every one of these supplements will be updated or errated to be compatible with the new version? I don't:

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Tasha's Cauldron of everything, Guikdmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Eberron Rising from the Last War, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, Mythic Odysseys of Theros, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, etc..

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why do you think they will update or errata every single supplement book outside the Core 3? They didn't in prior shifts like this.

Which shifts do you mean? As far as I can tell the closest one is essentials, and even it isn’t the same thing.

They've given no indication they plan to this time.

They’ve gone out of their way to say, multiple times, that every adventure and supplement will be fully compatible with One D&D.

So what makes you think existing PCs built using older supplement books will still be compatible with the new version of the game?

Because it’s an update to this edition, not a new edition.

You think every one of these supplements will be updated or errated to be compatible with the new version? I don't:

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Tasha's Cauldron of everything, Guikdmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Eberron Rising from the Last War, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, Mythic Odysseys of Theros, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, etc..

They won’t need to be. So far you’ve identified one actual incompatibility, and it’s from one of two books that will almost certainly be updated if needed.

More likely, the (not at all final) playtest rules will be adjusted, or added to.

 

[Maxperson]

Which shifts do you mean? As far as I can tell the closest one is essentials, and even it isn’t the same thing.

They’ve gone out of their way to say, multiple times, that every adventure and supplement will be fully compatible with One D&D.

Because it’s an update to this edition, not a new edition.

So was 3.5 and it wasn't backwards compatible with 3e. @Mistwell is right. If we have to avoid playing with certain rules, classes, races, etc. or house rule a bunch of stuff to make 5e work with 5.5, it's not compatible.

They won’t need to be. So far you’ve identified one actual incompatibility, and it’s from one of two books that will almost certainly be updated if needed.

He identified a lot more than one.

More likely, the (not at all final) playtest rules will be adjusted, or added to.

Yes, but with the very first playtest packet having so many incompatibility issues, it really doesn't bode well for the end product to be compatible. They've been saying that 5.5 will be backwards compatible and they are presumably competent game designers so you'd think that there would be fewer issues with the first stuff they put out.

 

[Mistwell]

They won’t need to be. So far you’ve identified one actual incompatibility, and it’s from one of two books that will almost certainly be updated if needed.

More likely, the (not at all final) playtest rules will be adjusted, or added to.

Yes, they will need to be. ANY feat in any book right now is not compatible without an update or errata, for example. And that's from ONE playtest.

If you disagree, what feat level is Elven Accuracy for example? It's not a PHB feat so not currently slated for a playtest revamp.

This is similar to the shift from 3e to 3.5e. They never did get back to giving out the errata or update on some of the books which came before 3.5e was released. They even at one point said by name some they planned to offer errata on, and never did. People joked when 4e came out "Well I guess we're never going to get that errata for book X."

 

[James Gasik]

It's typical corporate speak. They promise backwards compatibility but rarely actually give it to you. The correct term, in this case is "it's close enough that you can jerry rig it", like how you could still run OD&D adventures in AD&D without a lot of effort.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It is weaker. He's objectively better off playing an original variant human than a compatible human.

Vuman :

• Stat increase made irrelevant by the background ASIs
• Size M
• Speed 30 ft
• 2 languages
• 1 skill
• 1 feat of your choice

Cuman :

• Size M or S
• Speed 30 ft
• Inspiration after a long rest
• 1 skill
• 1 feat from the reduced/lower powered "1st level feat" list.

Unless you want to be S, you're basically trading 2 languages and the restricting the choice on your initial feat for advantage on a roll once a day.

I wouldn't say it's "awful" or "terrible" but it's clearly inferior. I'd also expect this inferiority to be compounded by the fact that an unrestricted feat on top of a 1st level feat coming from background opens up combos that aren't possible with two 1st level feat.

This is incredibly misleading.

The Cuman as you called it gets three languages. They get common, a language of their choice, and a language of their choice tied to their background. They also get a tool proficiency.

The Vuman could have between 2 and 4 languages (depend on background) and 0 to 2 tools (depending on background and inverse of languages.


Therefore, the average Vuman had 3 languages and 1 tool, the exact same as the Cuman. The only difference is a slightly weaker choice of 1st level feat, for which they get compensated by getting auto-inspired every morning.

Edit: Right, and they get a second feat. So, you've traded 1 feat and the chance for 4 languages OR 2 tools for two feats and auto-inspiration.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You think every one of these supplements will be updated or errated to be compatible with the new version? I don't:

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Tasha's Cauldron of everything, Guikdmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Eberron Rising from the Last War, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, Mythic Odysseys of Theros, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, etc..

You identified four "problems"

1) Humans can't get feats to start with an 18. Not a rules issue that needs updating, this is the change for 1st level feats.

2) Critical hits. Explicitly part of the playtest they may not keep. They've said that. I think pointing out these issues is important for showing why this rule may need to not be kept in the final version

3) Grapple issue. This is a fundamental change, but one that is pretty easy to fix. I literally just did this for plasmoids earlier today. They have advantage on rolls to escape and grant disadvantage against people they are grappling. Fairly easy fix.

4) Changes to short rests. This has been something changing over the last few books, so it isn't even an OD&D problem, as much as it is a pre- and post-Tasha's problem.

So, with these as our examples....

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide -> Nothing you listed applies. No rules changes needed.
Xanathar's Guide to Everything -> #2 for one ability of one class, for a rule they may not keep
Tasha's Cauldron of everything -> #2 for one ability of one class, for a rule they may not keep, maybe a handful of #3's
Guikdmaster's Guide to Ravnica -> Nothing not already covered by the above
Eberron Rising from the Last War -> Nothing applies
Explorer's Guide to Wildemount -> Don't think anything applies, haven't read it in a while
Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron -> Nothing that isn't covered by the above
Mythic Odysseys of Theros -> Don't think anything applies, haven't read it in a while
Strixhaven -> Don't think anything applies, haven't read it in a while
Spelljammer -> #3 for a single race

So... most of these books don't even need a rewrite. Most of the actualy things that need changed is grappling. Which can be trivially accomplished by a single line of text in the PHB

"If you have advantage on strength saves and strength ability checks, you have advantage on rolls to escape grapples and grant disadvantage against people to escape your grapples"

And BOOM. Everything except plasmoid is fixed.

 

[Mistwell]

This is incredibly misleading.

The Cuman as you called it gets three languages. They get common, a language of their choice, and a language of their choice tied to their background. They also get a tool proficiency.

The Vuman could have between 2 and 4 languages (depend on background) and 0 to 2 tools (depending on background and inverse of languages.


Therefore, the average Vuman had 3 languages and 1 tool, the exact same as the Cuman. The only difference is a slightly weaker choice of 1st level feat, for which they get compensated by getting auto-inspired every morning.

Edit: Right, and they get a second feat. So, you've traded 1 feat and the chance for 4 languages OR 2 tools for two feats and auto-inspiration.

They've traded, "Only race that can get a feat at first level" for "every race gets a feat at first level" which is meaningful.