Aldarc
Legend
I think that it's not "rulings over rules" that I have an issue with when it comes to MMI. Interpretation of the game rules and making rulings are part of playing games.Can you be more specific. Is it the rulings over rules approach you dislike? I'm just trying to understand because it seems like you don't objet to the standard arrangement between players and GMs, but you are finding something in certain versions of the game that give the GM even more power than they otherwise would have. Is this correct?
However, I think that (1) MMI feels like a violation of player agency and "ownership" over the play of the character (i.e., thoughts and actions); and upon further reflection (2) MMI feels like a violation of the 5e PHB play process.
(1) I do not expect my character to know everything about the world nor I do not expect my character to be able to do everything. As I wrote earlier:
In my experience, MMI creates dissonance in my ability to roleplay that character. What can my character do or know in the fiction without first courting the GM's permission?Where I have issue with MMI - regardless of what gaming culture it shows up in - lies in how it interferes with the ability to roleplay my character(s). It is not just the world that I would want to play with fidelity in OSR or FKR, but also my character. If things like what my character knows is constantly being gated behind GM permissions then (A) it will start feeling less and less like my character and more like a character that the GM has loaned me; (B) it will likewise feel less and less like my play and more and more like the GM's play, and (C) I will likely feel less and less immersed in the world that my character inhabits and the shared world I am playing. I also think that MMI runs counter to FKR, as MMI can turn FKR less into an expression of "tacitcal infinity" and more into an expression of "GM-approved tactics."
I think that GM rulings are not really what's at stake here for me when we are talking about MMI. It's about my agency as a player to play my character in the game. Can I know this? Can I do this? Can I do anything with my character without the GM's gated permission? What actual autonomy or agency do I have to roleplay my character in this world that isn't subject to requiring the GM's permission or unilateral veto? Can I know or do anything regarding my player character without the GM's permission and not be accused of being an entitled player?
(2) Several times in this thread, the 5e PHB play process was quoted:
This play process was appealed to emphasize the GM's ability to make rulings and adjudicate outcomes. But where does MMI come into this? I now think that MMI is not fundamentally about the GM adjudicating outcomes of characters' actions or even about their power to make rulings, because in order for the GM to adjudicate their actions the players must declare actions!1. DM describes the environment.
2. The players describe what they want to do.
3. The DM narrates the results of the adventurers' actions.
As such, I think that MMI is effectively a GM violation of play process §2 and (by extension) §3. This is more than simply determining the effectiveness of the PCs actions: MMI entails the GM micromanaging §2 and interfering with the ability for players to declare actions through a lens of GM-permissable and GM-impermissable actions, "yes, you may"/"no, you may not," "green light/red light," etc.
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