D&D 5E [+]What does your "complex fighter" look like?

[DND_Reborn]

Sunder and disarm are bad. Either they completely negate the target's attacks or they do nothing.

I'm glad they're gone.

Disarm isn't. It is in the DMG.

Completely negating an opponent's attacks seem like a pretty good option to me in some cases.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sunder and disarm are bad. Either they completely negate the target's attacks or they do nothing.

I'm glad they're gone.

You're right. No one in D&D should be able to break someone's weapon or disarm them of it. That wouldn't make any sense!

Edit: I hope the sarcasm was evident here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"the fighter gets fighting style, second wind, action surge extra attack, indomitable, and 2 subclass features and a bonus ASI/feat for a total of 8"

Where are the 5 options allowed from Maneuvers?

that would be a single subclass choice... not all fighters.

Fighters get multiple chances to hit, unlike wizards who miss completely with their cantrips.

unless the cantrip is eldritch blast (what you don't like calling out 1 specific thing... I bet you don't)
rolling multi to hit is NOT a pure bonus. if I make 1 attack for x3 damage and you make 3 attacks for x1 damage it will as often be a boon to me (I hit and you didn't hit with all) as it will for you (I miss and you hit with all)

Wizards do not in fact get every attack a fighter gets. One very specific subclass does, but then falls behind.

I'm sorry, what wizard can't make a weapon attack? I have yet to play one that doesn't carry some wapon (even if I only use it as a back up back up)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I believe what you term uncanny to me would be something plausible in mundane views, but insanely incredible.

what I want is to take the 3e Ex Su and make them Canny (in theory anyone could learn to do this) Uncanny (you have to be a heroic character and even then this looks amazing... but possible) and Supernatural

 

[GMforPowergamers]

To be fair, all of your responses indicate a strongly held narrative, 4th ed-centric point of view.

yup 4e is my favorite D&D... 2e WOULD be my 2nd fav but too many fiddly bits (a good 2e retroclone without thac0 would be) so right now 5e holds second best by a nose.

Now I understand that you're a fan, and that's fine, but you're espousing a specific gaming philosophy as fact that many gamers don't necessarily share.

the same can be said for the OTHER side fo teh argument.

 

[Maxperson]

that would be a single subclass choice... not all fighters.

And yet you use only the Champion, which is the only subclass not to have more options from it's subclass abilities.

unless the cantrip is eldritch blast (what you don't like calling out 1 specific thing... I bet you don't)

Wizards don't get that.

rolling multi to hit is NOT a pure bonus. if I make 1 attack for x3 damage and you make 3 attacks for x1 damage it will as often be a boon to me (I hit and you didn't hit with all) as it will for you (I miss and you hit with all)

It will far more often be a boon to me, assuming the same chance to hit. You will waste entire rounds far more often than I will, and that matters more in a fight than hitting harder every so often. Reliable damage tends to put things down faster.

I'm sorry, what wizard can't make a weapon attack? I have yet to play one that doesn't carry some wapon (even if I only use it as a back up back up)

Yeah, making a crappy to hit attack with a dagger or staff is not the same as a fighter with his weapon. Like not even close.

 

[DND_Reborn]

unless the cantrip is eldritch blast (what you don't like calling out 1 specific thing... I bet you don't)

Wizard's don't get eldritch blast unless you want to use a feat to get it...

rolling multi to hit is NOT a pure bonus. if I make 1 attack for x3 damage and you make 3 attacks for x1 damage it will as often be a boon to me (I hit and you didn't hit with all) as it will for you (I miss and you hit with all)

Actually, it is, especially since you get to add your ability modifier to damage with each hit. Wizards (IIRC) never get to add INT mod to damage with their cantrip damage, unlike some clerics.

For example, if a Fighter makes three attacks (65% hit) for 1d8+5 vs. a Wizard's one attack (65%) for 3d8, the difference is 9.75 DPR (18.525 - 8.775).

Even if Wizard's did add INT mod to damage, it still isn't even close.

I'm sorry, what wizard can't make a weapon attack? I have yet to play one that doesn't carry some wapon (even if I only use it as a back up back up)

FWIW, I've seen clerics, druids, and wizard solely rely on cantrips for attacks (or forcing saves). In RotFM, I had a player with a cleric who actually threw his mace into the icy waters because he had no reason to carry it, toll the dead was better.

what I want is to take the 3e Ex Su and make them Canny (in theory anyone could learn to do this) Uncanny (you have to be a heroic character and even then this looks amazing... but possible) and Supernatural

I have no idea what this is since I didn't play 3E much and it was over 15 years ago.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yup 4e is my favorite D&D... 2e WOULD be my 2nd fav but too many fiddly bits (a good 2e retroclone without thac0 would be) so right now 5e holds second best by a nose.

the same can be said for the OTHER side fo teh argument.

Very true, but that does mean that neither side is objectively correct.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And yet you use only the Champion, which is the only subclass not to have more options from it's subclass abilities.

do you want to go through every subclass for both classes?

It will far more often be a boon to me, assuming the same chance to hit. You will waste entire rounds far more often than I will, and that matters more in a fight than hitting harder every so often. Reliable damage tends to put things down faster.

nope 1 good crit turning a 3x attck into a 6x attack has more then once ended an enemy in our games

Yeah, making a crappy to hit attack with a dagger or staff is not the same as a fighter with his weapon. Like not even close.

what makes it crappy?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

WIW, I've seen clerics, druids, and wizard solely rely on cantrips for attacks (or forcing saves). In RotFM, I had a player with a cleric who actually threw his mace into the icy waters because he had no reason to carry it, toll the dead was better.

I have seen people primary focus on cantrips but I have never seen a party were all the casters didn't carry any weapons.