Celebrim
Legend
@GMforPowergamers : There is so much to address that I hardly know where to begin, so I'll try to confine my response to one area and that is that you don't seem to distinguish between in fiction and out of fiction. You switch freely back and forth between an in fiction perspective and an out of fiction perspective, without seeming to note or mark that you have done so. This is very confusing to follow.
So let's talk about the claim "Robin Hood is the protagonist".
Now out of the fiction, Robin Hood is the protagonist. From the perspective of someone outside of the book or story, we know that Robin Hood hits the target because he is protected by the power of plot. He will succeed whenever the story needs him to succeed and fail whenever the story needs him to fail. Robin Hood hits the target from the out of story perspective because the writer wanted him to because the writer had full control over the story.
But inside the story at the level of the fiction, Robin Hood is not the protagonist. Robin Hood inside the story is a skilled warrior. He hits what he is shooting at not because the author of the story wants him to hit, because neither the author nor the story exists. He hits the target because he's the best archer in England. Robin Hood's archery skills within the story are not outside of what a real archer can do, because one of the things the story author wanted was to make Robin Hood a believable figure in the real world. One of the things real world trick archers do is recreate the splitting the arrow shot. Therefore, it doesn't require magic. Moreover, in the story Robin Hood doesn't hit because he's the protagonist, but because he's a skilled archer. Inside the story, Robin Hood can miss shots. He's merely the best archer in England. He doesn't have any magical abilities. So regardless of whether he finds the shots he's called on to do within his ability, there is some level of shot which even Robin Hood cannot make, which would stretch his skills to far. It's merely the story never asks him to do any of that.
From the standpoint of the game, Robin Hood doesn't have power of plot. He's a player character. He wouldn't be the protagonist less if he was a druid or a rogue rather than a whatever class you think Robin Hood is. Regardless of whether he is the protagonist or not, he has to test the fiction because Robin Hood's player is not the sole author of the story. Even more so, from the standpoint of the game, not every fighter is the protagonist. The third level fighter who is the gate watchman for a town isn't the protagonist. So saying that a fighter should have power of plot just because Robin Hood does in a story is weird. The game is not a novel.
One way this becomes immediately apparent is if we start comparing Robin Hood to other story characters like Deadshot and Bullseye who do have magical and supernatural levels of skill. Unlike Robin Hood, inside the story itself they are supposed to be able to do impossible shots that are beyond human ability. Both claim to "never miss". But of course, they do. If Deadshot or Bullseye try to shoot a target that has sufficiently good defensive ability and reflexes, they can and do regularly miss despite being much better shots than Robin Hood.
A power like "1/day, hit a target without missing" is magical in the context of a story, because it doesn't test against the fiction. It doesn't matter how far away the target is, how small the target is, or how good the target's defenses are, if you have that power you still hit. That's not something that depends on skill, because skill is not tested - "Is my skill higher than the skill of whom I'm shooting at?" That is magic.
Something is not magic just because you call it magic and something doesn't stop being magic just because you say it isn't magic.
Two of those involve action at a distance governed by the mental force or will of a person who was born special. The other one is a guy with an axe. Action at a distance when governed by the mind is magic. Jedi are space wizards. In fact, I think that even in canon they are called sorcerers and wizards by other characters. "The Force" is just the in-universe explanation for magic in Star Wars.
So let's talk about the claim "Robin Hood is the protagonist".
Now out of the fiction, Robin Hood is the protagonist. From the perspective of someone outside of the book or story, we know that Robin Hood hits the target because he is protected by the power of plot. He will succeed whenever the story needs him to succeed and fail whenever the story needs him to fail. Robin Hood hits the target from the out of story perspective because the writer wanted him to because the writer had full control over the story.
But inside the story at the level of the fiction, Robin Hood is not the protagonist. Robin Hood inside the story is a skilled warrior. He hits what he is shooting at not because the author of the story wants him to hit, because neither the author nor the story exists. He hits the target because he's the best archer in England. Robin Hood's archery skills within the story are not outside of what a real archer can do, because one of the things the story author wanted was to make Robin Hood a believable figure in the real world. One of the things real world trick archers do is recreate the splitting the arrow shot. Therefore, it doesn't require magic. Moreover, in the story Robin Hood doesn't hit because he's the protagonist, but because he's a skilled archer. Inside the story, Robin Hood can miss shots. He's merely the best archer in England. He doesn't have any magical abilities. So regardless of whether he finds the shots he's called on to do within his ability, there is some level of shot which even Robin Hood cannot make, which would stretch his skills to far. It's merely the story never asks him to do any of that.
From the standpoint of the game, Robin Hood doesn't have power of plot. He's a player character. He wouldn't be the protagonist less if he was a druid or a rogue rather than a whatever class you think Robin Hood is. Regardless of whether he is the protagonist or not, he has to test the fiction because Robin Hood's player is not the sole author of the story. Even more so, from the standpoint of the game, not every fighter is the protagonist. The third level fighter who is the gate watchman for a town isn't the protagonist. So saying that a fighter should have power of plot just because Robin Hood does in a story is weird. The game is not a novel.
One way this becomes immediately apparent is if we start comparing Robin Hood to other story characters like Deadshot and Bullseye who do have magical and supernatural levels of skill. Unlike Robin Hood, inside the story itself they are supposed to be able to do impossible shots that are beyond human ability. Both claim to "never miss". But of course, they do. If Deadshot or Bullseye try to shoot a target that has sufficiently good defensive ability and reflexes, they can and do regularly miss despite being much better shots than Robin Hood.
A power like "1/day, hit a target without missing" is magical in the context of a story, because it doesn't test against the fiction. It doesn't matter how far away the target is, how small the target is, or how good the target's defenses are, if you have that power you still hit. That's not something that depends on skill, because skill is not tested - "Is my skill higher than the skill of whom I'm shooting at?" That is magic.
Something is not magic just because you call it magic and something doesn't stop being magic just because you say it isn't magic.
Two of those involve action at a distance governed by the mental force or will of a person who was born special. The other one is a guy with an axe. Action at a distance when governed by the mind is magic. Jedi are space wizards. In fact, I think that even in canon they are called sorcerers and wizards by other characters. "The Force" is just the in-universe explanation for magic in Star Wars.
