D&D 5E Are Wizards really all that?

[Cadence]

(bold added)

This is the important clause here.

In my D&D worlds, for example, magic is most certainly not common! Wizards are rare, and not every one has a familiar. Most peasants would go their entire lives without personally meeting a wizard. They might see one, or know of one nearby, etc. but that is it.

Do the PC wizards have a hard time finding new spells due to this rarity? Ditto for the party finding magic items? Or are there workarounds (secretive guild/school, leftovers from days of yore, etc...)

 

[ECMO3]

What are you talking about? This is not an answer to what I said, which is that you don't have enough slots to do everything you've claimed you are casting in your less than an hour of adventuring time. As for nimble escape, I never said it was a spell. I said it cannot help you do more damage unless you are casting a spell which lets you hide so that you can attack with advantage. Without such a spell, you are seen and cannot hide from the person you are attacking.

In what I replied to You claimed that a fighter would hit more often, not that he would do more damage.

No it can't. You cannot hide, as in you get no roll to hide at all, nimble escape or not. Period. You are seen. Nimble escape only lets you hide as a bonus action. It does not invalidate the hiding rules.

Sure but you can break line of sight and hide and if you are hidden you have advantage to attack.

Absolutely you need to break line of sight to do it, but that is not that hard to do.

You are not invisible. You have disguise self up. "If I cast disguise self and spend 15 minutes clearing 3 rooms and having 3 fights and then we short rest, the spell is still active for most of that rest."

You can have both invisibility and disguise self up at the same time. Disguise self is not a concentration spell.

You don't have enough slots to do all of that for all of the encounters, plus cast spells in 6-8 combats. You have 12 slots + whatever you get back(1-4 slots, depending how you do it) from 1 short rest.

Sure and you don't need nearly as many as you claim.

I have WAY more than I need to dominate exploration and stealth in a normal adventuring day. Way more, like twice as many as I would need. Now I would use many/all of them in combat.

I have asked you to provide examples and you haven't.

Actions ONLY happen in combat man. They are a combat specific thing. Further, even if you are in combat, RAW allows me to say, "You automatically fail, because you are attempting to do the impossible." As it's clearly impossible to search an entire room and everything in it while walking. It's not a house rule to employ RAW and not even a rogue can do what you are claiming.

Then your position rests on the idea it takes longer to do things when someone is not threatening you. That makes no sense and nothing in the game states actions only happen in combat.

I can carefully pick a locked chest while an orc is swinging a sword at me in 6 seconds, but if no one is attacking me it takes a minute?

In any case if you are this focused on combat, just have an 8 strength ally attack you with an unarmed strike with his eyes closed while you do this. If he hits it is zoer damage, but this will put you into combat so you can get do things quicker.

Um, no. Show me any folded clothes piled on top of one another that has a 1 inch gap in-between the folded clothing. For that matter, show me any normal dresser with a drawer that has a 1 inch gap.

One inch gap between the yellow sweater and the side of the box:

Here’s The Best Way To Pack Clothes For Moving

Get expert advice on improvements to your home, including design tips, how much you'd expect to pay for a pro and what to ask when hiring experts.

www.forbes.com

One inch gap in the wasteband of the jeans, underneath the knee on the jeans, in the shoes and possibly in the left cuff of the pink shirt:

18,778,639 Clothes Royalty-Free Photos and Stock Images | Shutterstock

Find Clothes stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Thousands of new, high-quality pictures added every day.

www.shutterstock.com

Something a bit more thematic, tons of gaps all over the place, shouders on the first image, above the fur on the third, both armbands on the 4th:

9,917 Leather Armor Images, Stock Photos, 3D objects, & Vectors | Shutterstock

Find Leather Armor stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Thousands of new, high-quality pictures added every day.

www.shutterstock.com

Picture of a dresser drawer with a 1-inch gap:

How to Make Old Wood Drawers Slide More Easily

It's been a while since I've shared a Five Minute Friday post, but this is a good one. If you've ever had the experience of wood drawers sticking and not sliding smoothly in an old

www.blueistyleblog.com

It gives you a roll if what you are attempting is possible, which the DM by RAW determines. If you attempt something so foolish as to try and search an entire room and everything in it as a 6 second action, no DM I have ever played with will allow it to happen as it's impossible.

Ok so with play with homebrew.

He can search a small section of the wall in 6 seconds, sure. Not a full 10x10 section, though.

The rules state explicitly that he can move 300 feet in one minute without a penalty to passive perception. He MUST be able to search a 30 foot block in 6 seconds to do that. It is math

Page 182-183 under noticing threats.

Rarely being used =/= better than the rogue.

Used when needed means better than the Rogue.

You should have a high dex and expertise. With retries you can't fail once you hit 5th level. Before that you only fail DC 30 locks, which you shouldn't be encountering at those levels. Your DM is gimping you hard.

IF you get unlimited rolls, in which case the Rogue is not better than any character.

I asked how many locks were above a DC28 in a level 5-20 adventure. My guess is the answer is 0. So the Rogue can open any lock he finds in most adventures given unlimited tries and so can the Wizard, there is no difference there.

The only time this difference matters at all is when the check needs to be made quickly or there are ramifications for failing it (which there often are).

As for the second claim the wizard with his 14 dex

Read the build I posted 18 Dex at level 8, not 14 and not even 16. His lockpick skill is +7 at 8th level.

Do the math! He can open any lock DC 27 or below automatically. At 12th level, with a 20 dex, he can open even the 30DC locks and it is highly unlikely he will even come across a DC 30 lock before then.

Why would you ever build a wizard (or any character) with a 14 dexterity if you were focused on stealth and exploration. It makes no sense.

I want an example of a lock in a published adventure at 8th level that a Wizard with a +7 could not open given unlimited tries.

LOL So you've given up on level 8 and skipped straight to level 17 in order to beat the 5th level rogue I see. That's when your wizard has +8.

No you can't do math. At 8th level +4Dex, +3 proficiency is +7. At 17th level +5 dex+6 proficiency is +11

How does the wizard open a DC 27 with +5? He has a 14 dex and simple proficiency which is +3.

He doesn;t have a +5, he a +7. Math is your friend!

"Sometimes a character fails an ability check and wants to try again. In some cases, a character is free to do so; the only real cost is the time it takes. With enough attempts and enough time, a character should eventually succeed at the task. To speed things up, assume that a character spending ten times the normal amount of time needed to complete a task automatically succeeds at that task. However, no amount of repeating the check allows a character to turn an impossible task into a successful one."

Yep, so my Wizard can open any DC27 lock at 8th level and any lock in the game at level 12 .... and this is without feats even!

A dozen spell slots to open the chests on the way out?

No only those that he could not open earlier, which will probably be 0.

So now he cast zero spells that weren't cantrips in 6-8 combats, no disguise selfs, no charm monsters, no invisibility, no anything with a slot for the entire adventuring day?

Well you only asked him to match a fighter in combat. That is not a very high bar. Moreover you are sending all the encounters during the rests so as to spread them out over the day, so I am not really running into any encounters when exploring.

But the answer is no, I am going to use about 6 or 7 leveled spells to be better than the Rogue at all three phases leaving me over hald

First you are using dozens of slots

What am I using "dozens of slots" for. Please give me examples so I can debunk this. You keep saying "dozens of chests" but provided no examples of these chests that the Rogue can open but the Wizard can't.

Since I always have unlimited tries and there is no penalty for failing, I can already open every single lock I am going to find at 8th level, so no slots at all are needed for knock.

By the time DC30 locks actually are a thing in the game I will have them covered too!

to do everything better than the rogue, and now you are using no slots while still doing everything better than the rogue, so that you can cast knock on a dozen chests.

I don't have to cast knock if I have unlimited time to attempt. I succeed automatically on everything up to DC27 and I don't think there are a dozen DC28+ chests published in all of 5E for 8th level adventures.

Meaning if you take every single lick in every single published adventure for 8th level characters, I don't think you find "a dozen" 28-30DC locks in ALL of them.

Please I say it again, give me an example of where I will need to use a dozen knock spells. If it is a real thing you shoudl be able to come up with an example.

Remember, you can't rely on having a long rest to replenish all of your slots. You might be running out the door after getting in over your heads with an encounter. Or you might only have had 7 encounters for the day and have one at night. Or...

You are right, it could happen, but most of the time that won't happen.

IF you make the short rest slots all 1st level, which means some of those higher level spells you keep using in multiples go away.

I have not used multiple higher level spells. I said I used one arcane eye.

No.....................you.......................don't. You keep saying that, but reality disagrees with you. I

YES ..... I ..... CAN

and if I really couldn't you would be able to provide an example of a published adventure where I can't.

With a dozen or so published campaigns and probably 100 or more published 5E modules, why can't you provide a single example to supprt your claim?

If you use only 1 spell per combat

I won't. Not counting invisiblity which may be precast.

Using lots of spells in combat are for wizards who want to dominate combat, I only need to do better than a fighter.

Also as a point of fact at 8th level I have 4 spells that use no slots and I can use all of them repeatedly in combat if I want/need to.

I have. Like above. That's a real adventuring day in which the wizard gets into combat. He uses a bunch of slots to fight with, on both offense and defense.

Or he uses none. Or he uses a few. With nimble escape, I am ahead of a basic fighter on DPR without using anything other than cantrips and that is as high as the bar was set for this discussion.

RAW does support you failing to do it, though. Page 237 of the DMG allows the DM to declare impossible attempts like that............impossible and you don't get to even roll.

But if it is possible then it isn't impossible and making a check is an action.

Also I will add NOTHING in the inquisitive section says those bonus actions have to be done in combat.

What evidence do you have that it takes longer than this. I can quote where the PHB says it is an action, I can quote where subclasses say it is an action.

How long do you think it should take to search a room?

1) You don't get actions under the rules unless you are in combat. Outside of combat you describe what you are doing, and the DM calls for a roll if it's possible or denies you if it isn't.

Yes you do.

Can I cast cure wounds out of combat? If I can't take an action to cast it! How can I cast it if I am ouit of combat and can't take actions?

I guess this explains why I can't use invisibility or disguise self or even knock. I need to be in combat to use them.

Not if run correctly by a DM that knows what he is doing. If you have a DM that's going to let you search entire rooms and everything in them in 6 seconds, then sure. The DM is screwing up badly if he does that, though.

No such a DM is playing perfectly according to the rules and like I said earlier, if we demands we be in combat, then I have one of my allies attack something to put us into combat.

You MIGHT know about 1 encounter. 2 if you got incredibly lucky. 3 is out of the question since you failed to explore the vast majority of the dungeon with your Arcane Eye.

No. I know the whole layout most of the time. I probably don't know how big the rooms are because they are behind doors, but in most dungeouns I know most of the layout.

Just look at the example dungeouns I posted, I know most of the area.

Also in those dungeons at many of those doors a Rouge opening a door is going to be seen, and will often be seen before he even gets to all the doors, so even so I am not perfect but it is "better" than the Rogue.

You keep acting like a day is 20 minutes. It isn't. It's 24 hours. You're also casting invisibility that somehow lasts for 4-6 enounters, not 6-8, which means you've done literally nothing offensive in any of them.

You will spend less than a half hour exploring, not counting travel time. Most of the day is traveling or resting and doing things like scribing scrolls or whatever.

Invisibility will generally last for only 1 encounter, but usually you scout with it, avoiding encounters then come back and have the first encounter, then the second, then maybe the third and then a short rest. so you will be invisble for about 5 or 10 minutes then spend about 5 minutes having the encounters and searching. That is the standard, it can vary of course.

Or else it would break the instant you do it in the first encounter. You get advantage from invisibility twice.

Well 3 times if I cast it 3 times, but sure.

Once in each of 2 of the 6-8 encounters. Not a whole heck of a lot of extra DPR, especially when you had a good chance of hitting without it.

But I am already above a basic fighter in DPR before I make that attack with advantage.

And you've not accounted for the shield spells you will need to cast because you're in the front line in 6-8 fights. And you've not accounted for any charm monster. Or darkness.

Not in the front line - nimlbe escape. You are right though I probably do need to cast a few shield spells, but not typically that many.

I said you maybe set one off. If it did, then the eye is gone since it is not per RAW indestructible and it is in fact physical, which means that you have explored less than the little of the dungeon you might have explored. The small eye has no hit points, so it can't take damage and survive. And before you call this a house rule, it isn't. The spell is silent on what happens, so the DM has to make an on the spot ruling

So can I ready an attack to destroy a fireball when a wizard casts it? It does not say it is indestructable.

Can I just swing a sword and destroy Black Tentacles that is restraining the entire party instead of making everyone try to escape? It does not say it is indestructable.

Instead of burning a web, can I just attack it and damage it for 1 hit point and destroy it? It does not say it is indestructable?

Can I do those things in your game?

Why would AE be any different than those spells?

What's more, if you can assume a 14 dex for the wizard,

You can't. I have never played a wizard with a dexterity that low and if you read above, this wizard is at 18.

I can assume a 14 int for the rogue(smart rogues are a thing lots of people do)

I do usually play intelligent Rogues, so if it is my Rogue this is a safe assumption, however most optimizers dump intelligence on a Rogue. Even on an Arcane Trickster they will dump intelligence and focus on spells without saves.

Object interactions are for small things, not going through a bed thoroughly. You can draw a sword, get out a potion, etc. The examples are clearly quick little interactions. Searching a bed does not use the object interaction rules.

No it is for picking up the sheet (small thing) so you can search the bed (action)

I did admit putting a bunch of drawers in there makes you do more things since you can't just look.

Also, and this is yet more RAW that destroys your position. From the Time rules on page 181 of the PHB.

"In a dungeon environment, the adventurers' movement happens on a scale of minutes. It takes them about a minute to creep down a long hallway, another minute to check for traps on the door at the end of the hall, and a good ten minutes to search the chamber beyond for anything interesting or valuable."

Did you bother to read this and do the math?

note it says "on a scale of MINUTES" .... NOT hours

Let's scale this - Dungeon with 10 "long" hallways and 10 chambers, searching for traps and searching every room. That is 2 hours according to what you just posted above, not 15 hours

That's wrong. The physicality of the eye sensor suggests that it can be destroyed. Why? Because nothing in the spell says it is immune to damage, so it isn't.

Nothing in fireball or black tenticles or web says it is immune to damage either. Can I destroy those with 1 hp damage

Look. Are you casting invisibility for the first 6 fights or not? You keep using up concentration spells for everything, then backtracking and using other ones. You can't cast them all.

Disguise Self is not a concentration spell and I am not using invisibility "for" any fights, it just happens to be up when one starts several times a day.

Not to any area you can't see. So if you are out of sight, the sound is going to be near you as you can't see past the group. Oh, wait. You're probably invisible now, despite arcane eye being up for an hour since "I don't think you ever need to cast AE more than once."

AE is not up for an hour, it is up for like 10 minutes BEFORE I cast invisibility.

Do you have a house rule that allows you to have two concentration spells up at once? You seem to be making this error a lot.

I haven't made it a single time. Tell me where I have said I would use 2 concentration spells simultaneously.

You do realize that in combat you are looking left, right, etc. while fighting and moving around in your square. You are not always facing one direction, so it's like that ever few seconds you can glance about you, keeping creatures who are not hidden/invisible from being able to get the drop on you. At no point, though, are you looking in all directions simultaneously.

You are looking in all the directions over the course of a turn and the eye is doing the same thing.

Flanking is entirely about facing.

No they are not. They are two entirely separate optional rules with entirely different mechanics and flanking does not matter how you are facing. I can be shooting an arrow at a guy 15 feet away and you can be attacking me from the other direction and I am not flanked RAW.

You get the bonus, because you cannot face both directions at once, so both flankers have an advantage against you due to you having to split your attention and direction to both and doing it imperfectly.

No mechanically for flanking you get the bonus because positioning alone and things like blidsight do not prevent it.

I will add that if you use the facing rule you can change facing as a reaction. So a fighter closes and attacks on one side no flanking, no advantage. A second fighter moves in directly opposite. At this point the guy that is attacking can change his facing as a reaction to face the second fighter (reaction to movement), so he is actually facing this second fighter, but the second figther still gets advantage under the flanking rules if you are using them.

Because you don't have to play it with flanking. Flanking is all about facing, facing is NOT all about flanking.

They are two completely different things with different mechanics and iff you are using both of them you get advantage on a flanked creature that is facing you.

What you have to overcome is RAW which says it takes 1 minute to go down a long passage without taking any time searching it, 10 minutes to search a room, finding traps is perception and not investigation, travel times apply to dungeons, and the DM decides if something is impossible, which by RAW searching a room or passage in 6 seconds is.

MINUTES not HOURS

 

[Maxperson]

In what I replied to You claimed that a fighter would hit more often, not that he would do more damage.




Sure but you can break line of sight and hide and if you are hidden you have advantage to attack.

Absolutely you need to break line of sight to do it, but that is not that hard to do.



You can have both invisibility and disguise self up at the same time. Disguise self is not a concentration spell.




Sure and you don't need nearly as many as you claim.

I have WAY more than I need to dominate exploration and stealth in a normal adventuring day. Way more, like twice as many as I would need. Now I would use many/all of them in combat.

I have asked you to provide examples and you haven't.



Then your position rests on the idea it takes longer to do things when someone is not threatening you. That makes no sense and nothing in the game states actions only happen in combat.

I can carefully pick a locked chest while an orc is swinging a sword at me in 6 seconds, but if no one is attacking me it takes a minute?

In any case if you are this focused on combat, just have an 8 strength ally attack you with an unarmed strike with his eyes closed while you do this. If he hits it is zoer damage, but this will put you into combat so you can get do things quicker.


One inch gap between the yellow sweater and the side of the box:

Here’s The Best Way To Pack Clothes For Moving

Get expert advice on improvements to your home, including design tips, how much you'd expect to pay for a pro and what to ask when hiring experts.

www.forbes.com

One inch gap in the wasteband of the jeans, underneath the knee on the jeans, in the shoes and possibly in the left cuff of the pink shirt:

18,778,639 Clothes Royalty-Free Photos and Stock Images | Shutterstock

Find Clothes stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Thousands of new, high-quality pictures added every day.

www.shutterstock.com

Something a bit more thematic, tons of gaps all over the place, shouders on the first image, above the fur on the third, both armbands on the 4th:

9,917 Leather Armor Images, Stock Photos, 3D objects, & Vectors | Shutterstock

Find Leather Armor stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Thousands of new, high-quality pictures added every day.

www.shutterstock.com

Picture of a dresser drawer with a 1-inch gap:

How to Make Old Wood Drawers Slide More Easily

It's been a while since I've shared a Five Minute Friday post, but this is a good one. If you've ever had the experience of wood drawers sticking and not sliding smoothly in an old

www.blueistyleblog.com

Ok so with play with homebrew.



The rules state explicitly that he can move 300 feet in one minute without a penalty to passive perception. He MUST be able to search a 30 foot block in 6 seconds to do that. It is math

Page 182-183 under noticing threats.



Used when needed means better than the Rogue.



IF you get unlimited rolls, in which case the Rogue is not better than any character.

I asked how many locks were above a DC28 in a level 5-20 adventure. My guess is the answer is 0. So the Rogue can open any lock he finds in most adventures given unlimited tries and so can the Wizard, there is no difference there.

The only time this difference matters at all is when the check needs to be made quickly or there are ramifications for failing it (which there often are).




Read the build I posted 18 Dex at level 8, not 14 and not even 16. His lockpick skill is +7 at 8th level.

Do the math! He can open any lock DC 27 or below automatically. At 12th level, with a 20 dex, he can open even the 30DC locks and it is highly unlikely he will even come across a DC 30 lock before then.

Why would you ever build a wizard (or any character) with a 14 dexterity if you were focused on stealth and exploration. It makes no sense.

I want an example of a lock in a published adventure at 8th level that a Wizard with a +7 could not open given unlimited tries.


No you can't do math. At 8th level +4Dex, +3 proficiency is +7. At 17th level +5 dex+6 proficiency is +11


He doesn;t have a +5, he a +7. Math is your friend!



Yep, so my Wizard can open any DC27 lock at 8th level and any lock in the game at level 12 .... and this is without feats even!



No only those that he could not open earlier, which will probably be 0.



Well you only asked him to match a fighter in combat. That is not a very high bar. Moreover you are sending all the encounters during the rests so as to spread them out over the day, so I am not really running into any encounters when exploring.

But the answer is no, I am going to use about 6 or 7 leveled spells to be better than the Rogue at all three phases leaving me over hald





What am I using "dozens of slots" for. Please give me examples so I can debunk this. You keep saying "dozens of chests" but provided no examples of these chests that the Rogue can open but the Wizard can't.

Since I always have unlimited tries and there is no penalty for failing, I can already open every single lock I am going to find at 8th level, so no slots at all are needed for knock.

By the time DC30 locks actually are a thing in the game I will have them covered too!



I don't have to cast knock if I have unlimited time to attempt. I succeed automatically on everything up to DC27 and I don't think there are a dozen DC28+ chests published in all of 5E for 8th level adventures.

Meaning if you take every single lick in every single published adventure for 8th level characters, I don't think you find "a dozen" 28-30DC locks in ALL of them.

Please I say it again, give me an example of where I will need to use a dozen knock spells. If it is a real thing you shoudl be able to come up with an example.



You are right, it could happen, but most of the time that won't happen.


I have not used multiple higher level spells. I said I used one arcane eye.




YES ..... I ..... CAN

and if I really couldn't you would be able to provide an example of a published adventure where I can't.

With a dozen or so published campaigns and probably 100 or more published 5E modules, why can't you provide a single example to supprt your claim?



I won't. Not counting invisiblity which may be precast.

Using lots of spells in combat are for wizards who want to dominate combat, I only need to do better than a fighter.

Also as a point of fact at 8th level I have 4 spells that use no slots and I can use all of them repeatedly in combat if I want/need to.


Or he uses none. Or he uses a few. With nimble escape, I am ahead of a basic fighter on DPR without using anything other than cantrips and that is as high as the bar was set for this discussion.


But if it is possible then it isn't impossible and making a check is an action.

Also I will add NOTHING in the inquisitive section says those bonus actions have to be done in combat.

What evidence do you have that it takes longer than this. I can quote where the PHB says it is an action, I can quote where subclasses say it is an action.

How long do you think it should take to search a room?


Yes you do.

Can I cast cure wounds out of combat? If I can't take an action to cast it! How can I cast it if I am ouit of combat and can't take actions?

I guess this explains why I can't use invisibility or disguise self or even knock. I need to be in combat to use them.


No such a DM is playing perfectly according to the rules and like I said earlier, if we demands we be in combat, then I have one of my allies attack something to put us into combat.




No. I know the whole layout most of the time. I probably don't know how big the rooms are because they are behind doors, but in most dungeouns I know most of the layout.

Just look at the example dungeouns I posted, I know most of the area.

Also in those dungeons at many of those doors a Rouge opening a door is going to be seen, and will often be seen before he even gets to all the doors, so even so I am not perfect but it is "better" than the Rogue.



You will spend less than a half hour exploring, not counting travel time. Most of the day is traveling or resting and doing things like scribing scrolls or whatever.

Invisibility will generally last for only 1 encounter, but usually you scout with it, avoiding encounters then come back and have the first encounter, then the second, then maybe the third and then a short rest. so you will be invisble for about 5 or 10 minutes then spend about 5 minutes having the encounters and searching. That is the standard, it can vary of course.


Well 3 times if I cast it 3 times, but sure.



But I am already above a basic fighter in DPR before I make that attack with advantage.




Not in the front line - nimlbe escape. You are right though I probably do need to cast a few shield spells, but not typically that many.



So can I ready an attack to destroy a fireball when a wizard casts it? It does not say it is indestructable.

Can I just swing a sword and destroy Black Tentacles that is restraining the entire party instead of making everyone try to escape? It does not say it is indestructable.

Instead of burning a web, can I just attack it and damage it for 1 hit point and destroy it? It does not say it is indestructable?

Can I do those things in your game?

Why would AE be any different than those spells?



You can't. I have never played a wizard with a dexterity that low and if you read above, this wizard is at 18.



I do usually play intelligent Rogues, so if it is my Rogue this is a safe assumption, however most optimizers dump intelligence on a Rogue. Even on an Arcane Trickster they will dump intelligence and focus on spells without saves.


No it is for picking up the sheet (small thing) so you can search the bed (action)

I did admit putting a bunch of drawers in there makes you do more things since you can't just look.




Did you bother to read this and do the math?

note it says "on a scale of MINUTES" .... NOT hours

Let's scale this - Dungeon with 10 "long" hallways and 10 chambers, searching for traps and searching every room. That is 2 hours according to what you just posted above, not 15 hours





Nothing in fireball or black tenticles or web says it is immune to damage either. Can I destroy those with 1 hp damage





Disguise Self is not a concentration spell and I am not using invisibility "for" any fights, it just happens to be up when one starts several times a day.



AE is not up for an hour, it is up for like 10 minutes BEFORE I cast invisibility.



I haven't made it a single time. Tell me where I have said I would use 2 concentration spells simultaneously.


You are looking in all the directions over the course of a turn and the eye is doing the same thing.



No they are not. They are two entirely separate optional rules with entirely different mechanics and flanking does not matter how you are facing. I can be shooting an arrow at a guy 15 feet away and you can be attacking me from the other direction and I am not flanked RAW.


No mechanically for flanking you get the bonus because positioning alone and things like blidsight do not prevent it.

I will add that if you use the facing rule you can change facing as a reaction. So a fighter closes and attacks on one side no flanking, no advantage. A second fighter moves in directly opposite. At this point the guy that is attacking can change his facing as a reaction to face the second fighter (reaction to movement), so he is actually facing this second fighter, but the second figther still gets advantage under the flanking rules if you are using them.




They are two completely different things with different mechanics and iff you are using both of them you get advantage on a flanked creature that is facing you.



MINUTES not HOURS

So you didn't quote a single rule to counter any of those rules that I quoted that destroy your arguments. Your constant response of "Nuh uh! RAW!" is tiresome. You've failed to prove your position and have put forth only unsubstantiated claims. I'm done.

 

[Gammadoodler]

And I find it interesting how, somehow, once the wizard starts to underperform, it seems like other spellcasting classes bunch themselves into the conversation. It feels like the single-class fighter has to out-compete all 8 spellcasting classes at once. Even when it should only be about the

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What I'm trying to say is that choosing to be a fighter doesn't mean you choose to disengage completely with exploration or social.

yes and everything you mentioned a BARD, or a DRUID, or a WIZARD can do... but (this is the important part) the other classes get 1st-9th levvel spells ALSO... in addition

What I'm trying to say is that choosing to be a fighter doesn't mean you choose to disengage completely with exploration or social.

what works better for fighters then a full caster?

So..on the one hand, you're right, that it has become fighter vs caster, when the thread is intended to specifically be about the wizard.

On the other hand there was a question outstanding that you did not address for any spellcaster including wizards. The OP was framed primarily as wizards vs. martials, so if you'd rather answer in that context than specific to the fighter, I imagine that'd be fair, no?

With that in mind, what works better in social or exploration for a martial than a wizard?

 

[Asisreo]

With that in mind, what works better in social or exploration for a martial than a wizard?

In terms of racial features? Quite a lot, actually. You're going to see the rogue pop up alot because...they're one of the most utility martials. Monks also have good utility.

A lightfoot halfling rogue's naturally stealthy feature mixes well with their cunning action, letting them essentially guarantee being hidden every turn as a bonus action by virtue of being near their allies and hiding behind them. A wizard can't just bonus action hide and I'm unfamiliar with any spell that let's them replicate that feature of the rogue.

Not only do any additional skills from race/background become a potential expertise target for a rogue, but they synergize with Reliable Talent. While a wizard taking a racial proficiency means they get a maximum of +11, the rogue picking the same option gets a bonus maximum of +17 with a lowest roll being a 27. Not to mention, certain races have tool proficiencies that act as expertise under certain conditions that will also gain the Reliable Talent benefit, like the gnome's Artificer Lore.

A wood elf's Fleet of Foot is a great way to give a monk a bit more distance with their extra movement and potential bonus action dash. A wizard might not need to move around the battlefield or moving along surfaces or liquids as swiftly depending on their gameplan. But also, the Fleet of Foot Barbarian gives the eagle totem a 45ft fly speed, 90ft in a dash. And this isn't a regular leap, either. This is a free 90ft flight. Meaning a barbarian can even maneuver in mid-air while moving in the air. A wizard getting an extra 5ft movement doesn't affect as much, especially since they usually want to be at range.

A shadow monk can get an extra casting of Darkness for free as a Drow. Considering the shadow monk wants to mainly be in darkness, them having 120ft darkvision is beneficial especially for seeing hostile creatures before they see the party.

Funnily, a barbarian with Aspect of the Eagle and a race with darkvision can pretty much see normally even in pitch darkness because dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on perception checks. I don't know of a wizard spell that can replicate this either.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Do the PC wizards have a hard time finding new spells due to this rarity? Ditto for the party finding magic items? Or are there workarounds (secretive guild/school, leftovers from days of yore, etc...)

We have a few things:

1. Rules for researching spells.
2. We assume spell discovery happens during downtime.
3. Discovery of leftover from ancient times in runes, etc.

Magic items are very rare, but unique and generally more powerful. PCs might not get a magical item or weapon for several levels.

 

[Asisreo]

We have a few things:

1. Rules for researching spells.
2. We assume spell discovery happens during downtime.
3. Discovery of leftover from ancient times in runes, etc.

Magic items are very rare, but unique and generally more powerful. PCs might not get a magical item or weapon for several levels.

However, we do have rules for buying, selling, and discovering magic items during adventures. In fact, if the DM follows the guidelines to making an adventure in the DMG, it's almost guaranteed the players will come across some magic items.

A personal anecdote is that I've never run a module that didn't have several magic items in a single adventure area, spread through the adventure.

 

[FrozenNorth]

That's not what I'm saying, though.

Assuming an impartial DM, the reason they'd deny your actions would be either consistency or to preserve their tolerable versimilitude. If a DM judges that the fighter's attempt is not possible and the wizard's make sense in context, then that's how it is.

Assuming an impartial DM, the wizard will be more ahead than the fighter, because the universe of actions that are both consistent and preserve verisimilitude is much larger when IN ADDITION to skills and background, you have a cat whose eyes you can see, and you have insanely versatile cantrips like Prestidigitation, Shape Water and Mold Earth.

 

[Krachek]

we just don't have straight fighters... we sometimes use it for multi class but in general our melee combatants are all half or full casters (or pact magic)

That’s what I was guessing.
Wizards won’t feel so OP in an all wizards party. But the complaint will then go on spells. there is spells that are so underpowered, they are only effective in combat and have no use in social and exploration encounter!

 

[Asisreo]

Assuming an impartial DM, the wizard will be more ahead than the fighter, because the universe of actions that are both consistent and preserve verisimilitude is much larger when IN ADDITION to skills and background, you have a cat whose eyes you can see, and you have insanely versatile cantrips like Prestidigitation, Shape Water and Mold Earth.

But without context, how can you directly attribute those options to a beneficial outcome?

Take a familiar, for instance. Have them scout the wrong place and, even if it's just a cat, it could alert the guards. And unlike a PC scout, you can't dispatch the patrol unit that spotted you.

In other words, the risk factor is indeterminate with regards to each option. And behind those risk factors determine whether your wizard is actually contributing beneficially.

And if you could somehow know the risk factor of your abilities, that still doesn't make any given ability better, it only makes it so any good options you happen to have are actually good.

And I think it's fine that the wizard has 20 options to choose from, 12 of which are obviously useless, 3 would appear to work but actually wouldn't have an effect, 1 that seems good but would actually be detrimental, 2 that are unoptimal solutions, and 2 that would actually work smoothly.