D&D 5E D&D Next playtest post mortem by Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson. From seven years ago.

[Oofta]

The point you made was that "art and tropes matter". You have, thus far, failed to indicate what existing art or tropes would be contradicted by fighters whose mental stats contribute to their success in combat.

Other than Sherlock Holmes (whose physical stats we simply don't have a clue about) there is not a trope of "the really smart guy can kick ass of anyone else no matter how well trained they are". The smart guy may outthink their enemy. They may use the (completely false) fiction of using 100% of your brain to have psychic abilities. You have the martial artists taking down people twice their size (also dumb, but it's common imagery) but that's dexterity and training in D&D not intelligence.

There's exactly 1 example that I know of (Sherlock Holmes) where intelligence wins physical combat.

You do you, I'm not continuing this. There's no point, we're just going to disagree.

 

[Charlaquin]

Back in the day when ability scores were 3d6 6 times straight across and an 18 gave you a +2, yeah.

18 gave you a +3. It was

3: -3
4-5: -2
6-8: -1
9-12: +0
13-15: +1
16-17: +2
18: +3

 

[Charlaquin]

Question about the number of books people like to acquire: Mearls repeated people tend to buy the core books, and then four expansion books over a decade. Their mindset changed to much more user experience and looking at a big picture for the game.

Wait… realizing something here…

5e has been out for a decade. In that time, there have been about 4 books focused mainly on crunchy options: Xanathar’s Guide, Volo’s Gide, Mordenkainen’s Tome, and Tasha’s Cauldron. Now they’re working on revising the core rules.

Maybe that’s their long-term strategy. Over 10 years, release 4 main expansion books, then update the core rules and start the cycle again.

 

[Parmandur]

Mearls felt making a version of the game free is helpful in reducing piracy. But ultimately making people a fan of D&D first is the most likely way to get them to buy content later (though he thinks the analysis is different for indie creators). He doesn't view the job of WOTC to be law enforcement. Mearls engaged in piracy for video games in his youth, like Ultima III, which led him to buying Ultima V later. He did the same with Napster, and then eventually moved to buying in iTunes because the storage stays on the cloud and was always there even when you switch computers or platforms. Piracy in his mind is just people sharing stuff as introductory, and if the content is high enough quality, and the physical book is high enough quality in art and texture and such, people will buy it. The best way to counter piracy is to offer a service customers really want.

Very reasonable, this matches my life experiences.

They are being more story and adventure focused. By expansions people tend to think of mechanics and crunchy, and so maybe they will focus on just four big mechanics focused expansions with a lot of other books on story and adventure. So they're not always dumping a giant book of new mechanics out there.

And so they did: heck, with the Rules expansion gift set they narrowed all four into three volumes.

 

[Parmandur]

Wait… realizing something here…

5e has been out for a decade. In that time, there have been about 4 books focused mainly on crunchy options: Xanathar’s Guide, Volo’s Gide, Mordenkainen’s Tome, and Tasha’s Cauldron. Now they’re working on revising the core rules.

Maybe that’s their long-term strategy. Over 10 years, release 4 main expansion books, then update the core rules and start the cycle again.

Mission: Accomplished?

Might explain why they only ever did a few, despite them selling well. They knew the audience for that kind of book wouldn't buy more.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Other than Sherlock Holmes (whose physical stats we simply don't have a clue about) there is not a trope of "the really smart guy can kick ass of anyone else no matter how well trained they are". The smart guy may outthink their enemy. They may use the (completely false) fiction of using 100% of your brain to have psychic abilities. You have the martial artists taking down people twice their size (also dumb, but it's common imagery) but that's dexterity and training in D&D not intelligence.

There's exactly 1 example that I know of (Sherlock Holmes) where intelligence wins physical combat.

You do you, I'm not continuing this. There's no point, we're just going to disagree.

So you can't point to any art or trope in D&D that suggests that mental stats are irrelevant to how well a fighter fights?

You can't point to any examples of the "dumb fighter" who would be invalidated by allowing those stats to have additional interactions in combat.

Your whole reasoning is "not wanting nerdy-looking kids to fight like badasses (unless they select an appropriate casting subclass)".

I'll just disagree with you. D&D art is broadly attribute agnostic. Most any character could be seen to operate effectively using most any combination of attributes. It is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Charlaquin]

Mission: Accomplished?

Might explain why they only ever did a few, despite them selling well. They knew the audience for that kind of book wouldn't buy more.

That makes so much sense in retrospect.

 

[James Gasik]

So let's see if I can find some other individuals who use brain power to win fights (or other physical challenges).

Horatio Hornblower.
Claudius.
Roran from The Inheritance Cycle.
Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Mace Windu.
Miles Vorkosigan.
Batman.
Mr. Fantastic.
Taskmaster.
Ozymandias.
Jason Bourne.
Riddick.
Michelle Trachtenberg.
Naru from Prey.
Yau-Man Chan.
Raymond Berry.
Danny Kaye.
Hironori Kuboki.
Dennis Rodman.
Greg Maddux.

 

[Gammadoodler]

So let's see if I can find some other individuals who use brain power to win fights (or other physical challenges).

Horatio Hornblower.
Claudius.
Roran from The Inheritance Cycle.
Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Mace Windu.
Miles Vorkosigan.
Batman.
Mr. Fantastic.
Taskmaster.
Ozymandias.
Jason Bourne.
Riddick.
Michelle Trachtenberg.
Naru from Prey.
Yau-Man Chan.
Raymond Berry.
Danny Kaye.
Hironori Kuboki.
Dennis Rodman.
Greg Maddux.

Just gonna come in here and name a bunch of wizards?

Sparately..Michelle Trachtenberg?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So let's see if I can find some other individuals who use brain power to win fights (or other physical challenges).

Horatio Hornblower.
Claudius.
Roran from The Inheritance Cycle.
Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Mace Windu.
Miles Vorkosigan.
Batman.
Mr. Fantastic.
Taskmaster.
Ozymandias.
Jason Bourne.
Riddick.
Michelle Trachtenberg.
Naru from Prey.
Yau-Man Chan.
Raymond Berry.
Danny Kaye.
Hironori Kuboki.
Dennis Rodman.
Greg Maddux.

I mean old testament David beat goliath with skill over size