D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[FrozenNorth]

Bards going from full casters to half casters seems a pretty big nerf.

That’s fair. A bard properly played is extremely strong however, with powers useful in combat, social and exploration pillars. They have martial weapons and several subclasses have multiattack.

I think someone mentioned that in AiME, the bards get spellcasting stripped out completely and are still very powerful.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I am curious how you propose to flavor smites as non-magical. Getting pumped up with fervor and just hitting hard?

No more or less magical than attacking 8 times in a single round (fighter) or never rolling less than 10 on a proficient skill check (rogue).

 

[Fanaelialae]

Well skills and magic systems don't match all that well. Skills are mundane by their definitions, and can be attempted nearly as often as you would like. Spells are fantastic, but limited by slot and time per day. Allowing skills to do fantastical things is a departure from tradition, and would need to be explained to folks why the rogue can now fly by using their skill. Additionally, all characters get skills so making them fantastic is another buff for casters. So, I would say that cloud walking rogues at any level shouldn't be leveraged via the skill system, but by some other resource built into class like the caster.

It all depends on the implementation.

To use the 3e example, those uses were (effectively) gated behind skill ranks. Casters didn't typically get Balance as a class skill, so they were unlikely to have the modifier necessary to do so. Even if there was some combination of spells that could grant you a high enough Balance check, casting Fly would likely still be the less resource intensive option for a caster. A caster would be far more likely to have access to something like epic Spellcraft skill options.

In 5e, yeah, the simplest approach would probably be just to grant martial characters epic skill manuevers as a class feature or some such.

 

[Undrave]

But Potter is not a good blueprint to follow for setting design in one very big other way: it's papered over in the books/movies but when looked at the least bit closely the power gap between muggles and even the most hopeless witches-wizards is simply far too great to be sustainable in a realistic setting.

Potter has terrible world building in almost every aspect. It makes for fun spectacle for kids but it's full of impractical nonsense (Let's travel through active fireplaces, that's a great idea! Let's enter our secret train station in full view of the muggles!).

And Wizards are so clueless of the world of Muggles they'd probably get taken out by any rando with a pistol.

I don't think so because almost every table accepts more complexity with feats. Feats are far more complex than any one of the DMG options I mentioned except facing.

Lolwut? Feats aren't complicated. They're maybe a lot to go through OFF TABLE (and not even there, it's like four pages, way less than spells) and they're mostly passive bonuses, at-will effects, or just limited versions of other class features. Feats are easy peasy once you pick one.

 

[Minigiant]

There is a frequent insistence by a vocal percentage of the fanbase that wants magic to be !!magic!! and non-magic to be bound to what people on Earth can do in their fantasy roleplaying game.

I think the other half is that there is a vocal percentage who what the nonmagical to be simple. But reallife isn't simple. People make whole careers doing common tasks.

I mean look at a few of the ranger's main fantasy elements.

• Foraging for food and drink
• Foraging for herbs for healing and restoration
• Foraging for toxins and milking venoms for combat
• Taming and Speaking to animals
• Tracking quarries accurately over long distances
• Overland navigation

Each of these would bea paragraph or four to even duplicate as a class feature that is mildly close to reality. Probably with charts. Therefore your only choices are to bend them closer to the supernatural by cutting restrictions, invest space into the creation of separate subsystems...

or do what was done... make rangers cast spells that do all of these.

A chip by chip the specialness of magic is chiseled away.

 

[Bill Zebub]

No more or less magical than attacking 8 times in a single round (fighter) or never rolling less than 10 on a proficient skill check (rogue).

I think they meant how you flavor a flash of radiant energy as non-magical. Or do you change the damage type to the weapon’s?

 

[Voadam]

No more or less magical than attacking 8 times in a single round (fighter) or never rolling less than 10 on a proficient skill check (rogue).

Just pure mechanics with no narrative explanation?

Extra radiant damage just mechanically happens and there is no narrative explanation for why a vampire stops regenerating?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Just pure mechanics with no narrative explanation?

Extra radiant damage just mechanically happens and there is no narrative explanation for why a vampire stops regenerating?

It’s probable possible to have this conversation by asking questions, rather than by ridiculing the other person.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What stakes? I might take some damage or get hit with a trap? How is that any different from the stakes from when I use a spell to attack something or learn information? The stakes are exactly the same. If I cast Sacred Flame at something or I hit it with my mace (as a cleric), what's the difference? Other than the fact that the Sacred Flame will probably be a better choice after about 5th level because my cleric will never be a very good melee character.

What stakes change if I check for traps as a rogue or I use Mage Hand to set off traps from a distance? It's exactly the same stakes.

Well, the stakes aren't exactly the same, depending on the scenario (a rogue disabling a trap that goes of is AFFECTED by it, Mage Hand from a distance is probably much safer ).

But, I understand your point. However, I think you missed mine.

Combat and figuring out the trap is the exciting part. Now, you say swinging your sword for the thousandth time gets old, well IMO casting firebolt for the thousandth time is just as old and boring. That is why I say the stakes are the exciting part.

 

[Voadam]

It’s probable possible to have this conversation by asking questions, rather than by ridiculing the other person.

Sure.

Sneak attacks do extra damage non-magically but have flavor of striking subtly and exploiting opponent's distraction.

Many non magical combat mechanics have little attached narrative but are fairly easy to conceive.

Many magical abilities are more of a stretch to conceive of as non-magical.

Paladin smite, lay on hands, divine sense, etc. They can be reflavored, but it is not an obvious reskin to a nonmagical narrative due to their base flavor and the specifics of the mechanics.

I am curious how you propose to flavor smites as non-magical. Getting pumped up with fervor and just hitting hard?

Smite involves radiant damage and uses expendable resources as opposed to being an always on ability.