Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

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DarkCrisis

Reeks of Jedi
given that you could just send them away to keep them from learning the dangerous stuff killing them seems unreasonable as how are they going to trial and error most of the dangerous stuff without proper training?
magic is a fair bit harder than basic math?

it logically could work but it would likely take a far better writing than most working today let alone two randoms who made a good adventure
If you continue to practice advanced magic without being a member of the towers you are hunted down and given the option of taking the test or being slain.

I don't know how else to express to you that in DL magic is seen as very important and very powerful and it must be controlled. Something people will risk death to learn. Its practically a religion all of its own. Is there nothing in your life you value so much that you might risk death to have it or kill to safe guard it?

Look at the X-Men, people born with amazing powers, and normal people fear, hate, and respect them for having that power. Because a mutant who looks like a normal guy can just walk into a building and destroy it with a thought. It's happened in the comics.

As much fun as D&D is with it's "everyone has magic and its everywhere!" is great think how scary that would really be to a normal pleb. Someone normal looking guy who can just put you to sleep, or mind control you, or blow up your house. As great as high fantasy worlds like Faerun are, it would be scary that people can just learn that stuff without regulation and abuse it at will.

Heck atleast Wizards have to dedicate time an resources to learn even simple spells. Sorcerers and Warlocks don't. That's even more terrifying.
 

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Vaalingrade

Legend
If you continue to practice advanced magic without being a member of the towers you are hunted down and given the option of taking the test or being slain.

I don't know how else to express to you that in DL magic is seen as very important and very powerful and it must be controlled. Something people will risk death to learn. Its practically a religion all of its own. Is there nothing in your life you value so much that you might risk death to have it or kill to safe guard it?

Look at the X-Men, people born with amazing powers, and normal people fear, hate, and respect them for having that power. Because a mutant who looks like a normal guy can just walk into a building and destroy it with a thought. It's happened in the comics.
Yeah, and the people who want to murder mutants for having those powers are.... you know, the villains. Because murdering people for how they're born is usually seen as wrong.

As wrong as murdering people for not joining your weird Gadalf religion.
 

Hussar

Legend
At the end of the day, I really don’t see any sort of compromise here. Yup, absolutely, there are themes in Dragonlance that can be viewed a certain way. Pekoe’s interpretations are valid and you can support them.

But, those are not the only way to interpret the work. The Cataclysm is simply the Atlantis myth rewritten. It was good enough for Tolkien, good enough for lots of other writers, so it’s good enough for me.

The notion that good has to be nice is not one I subscribe to and it’s certainly not how Dragonlance interprets good and evil. Dragonlance good Is utilitarian. Do what is most good for the most people. Destroy the Kingpriest to save the world. Kill potential Fistandantilus’ before allowing new ones to exist.

It’s a horrific version of good but a fascinating one too.
 

GreyLord

Legend
I think the problem is that the creators treated Good and Evil as both cosmic forces and as moralities, and I honestly don't think there's a way to do that that makes any real sense. So we're made to believe that the White Robes are morally good when they should just be considered to be on Team X, as opposed to Team Y and Team Z.

Personally, I think if a setting should have cosmic forces you align yourself to, they should have names other than Good/Neutral/Evil. And if you have alignments to describe morality, then they should not be cosmic forces.

This is one item I think is influenced by Mormonism. I don't agree with it myself, but I think it is an item which many of them believe.

If I recall right, it is the idea that in order for Good to exist, evil also must exist. That in order to experience something, the opposite of it must also exist.

The idea is that if there was no law, there would be no sin, and if no sin, there could be no righteousness (why...I have no idea...I suppose because they think that if you can't be bad, you can't be good either??). If there was no righteousness, there could be no happiness (why...again...because you have to experience sadness in order to realize or recognize you are happy??).

In that same light, if there was no happiness and no law and no sin, there would be no punishments or misery. If there was no punishment or misery, there would be no rewards either.

In my opinion, I think evil can be completely eliminated and good can actually be just naturally there. At least in my current way of thinking. So, my own feelings are not aligned with how Dragonlance presents the idea of balance. That's as much as I will elaborate upon my thoughts on this though.

It is this idea of opposites in Mormonism that I think may have influenced this entire idea of a balance between good and evil in Dragonlance. The idea being that we basically only have two choices in this life, to choose either good or evil (or neither I guess, the path of indecision as a neutral). Both have to exist so we can choose. This is why we have free agency, because we have the ability to choose between one or the other.

Anyways, I think this is where the idea of Good and Evil needing to be balanced comes from, and the idea that Good cannot exist without evil and evil cannot exist without good. That there needs to be a balance between the two...which is something that has come to be VERY core to Dragonlance in the past few decades.

With the diminishing of emphasis on alignment, one could wonder how much or little this idea will be emphasized in the new Dragonlance releases.

Edited: My original wording may have been taken too harshly against some individuals religious beliefs. My point is not to bring controversy, but to point out where this idea may have originally came from. I respect most other beliefs of others, whether I agree with them or not. This is not the place for religious expression though, nor the place to express the lack of it, so I have edited my posts to reflect a more positive outlook on the issue.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
The notion that good has to be nice is not one I subscribe to and it’s certainly not how Dragonlance interprets good and evil. Dragonlance good Is utilitarian. Do what is most good for the most people. Destroy the Kingpriest to save the world. Kill potential Fistandantilus’ before allowing new ones to exist.

It’s a horrific version of good but a fascinating one too.
I'm super over 'hard men making hard choices' being called good when they're just pragmatic in their monstrous choices.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
At the end of the day, I really don’t see any sort of compromise here. Yup, absolutely, there are themes in Dragonlance that can be viewed a certain way. Pekoe’s interpretations are valid and you can support them.

But, those are not the only way to interpret the work. The Cataclysm is simply the Atlantis myth rewritten. It was good enough for Tolkien, good enough for lots of other writers, so it’s good enough for me.

The notion that good has to be nice is not one I subscribe to and it’s certainly not how Dragonlance interprets good and evil. Dragonlance good Is utilitarian. Do what is most good for the most people. Destroy the Kingpriest to save the world. Kill potential Fistandantilus’ before allowing new ones to exist.

It’s a horrific version of good but a fascinating one too.
Without going into things not allowed on this forum, I wouldn't consider either of those things to be Good. And I wouldn't consider that sort of utilitarianism to be Good either. At best, they're necessary evils. It may be that the only way for Good to flourish is to kill Evil, but the act itself isn't Good, and the ends don't justify the means--particularly when the means involve sentient beings.

Which is fine in a setting where Good and Evil are not supposed to be both cosmic forces and moralities. It's fine in a setting that's Light Gray and Dark Gray. But that's not what Dragonlance is supposed to be, AFAICT.
 

The high sorcery test exemplifies “all power has its price” something dramatically making in most D&D (because it gets in the way of adolescent power fantasies).
 

Haplo781

Legend
Without going into things not allowed on this forum, I wouldn't consider either of those things to be Good. And I wouldn't consider that sort of utilitarianism to be Good either. At best, they're necessary evils. It may be that the only way for Good to flourish is to kill Evil, but the act itself isn't Good, and the ends don't justify the means--particularly when the means involve sentient beings.

Which is fine in a setting where Good and Evil are not supposed to be both cosmic forces and moralities. It's fine in a setting that's Light Gray and Dark Gray. But that's not what Dragonlance is supposed to be, AFAICT.
Alignment sucks
 

DarkCrisis

Reeks of Jedi
Yeah, and the people who want to murder mutants for having those powers are.... you know, the villains. Because murdering people for how they're born is usually seen as wrong.

As wrong as murdering people for not joining your weird Gadalf religion.

Then they don't have to join. You arent forced to take the Test. This applies only to Wizards of course and old DL. The whole system falls apart when you introduce Sorcerers and Warlocks. So of course Nu-DL does it different.
 

Yeah, and the people who want to murder mutants for having those powers are.... you know, the villains. Because murdering people for how they're born is usually seen as wrong.

As wrong as murdering people for not joining your weird Gadalf religion.
Never in my life did I run from someone as quickly as a couple at a local comic store that said that mutants being killed made sense...

I admit I am conflicted on where I fall on the Xavier-Magneto-Apocalypse spectrum but... yeah that was A take.
 

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