Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[Mind of tempest]

I'm not the poster but I see what he means. LG white robes are running lethal tests... if you pass you get sorted good neutral or evil, if you don't... you die. Heck passing doesn't mean that you aren't going to be cursed. Why would GOOD people let other good people die during the test...

that is horrific and seemingly pointless why would they even be called good?

I honestly don't know what you're asking because I don't think I or the subject matter involve 50/50. They're just 100% monsters for all the murder.

I do not know Dragonlance it was from my father's time, not mine hence I am applying the generic version of the balance between good and evil which to me always seemed daft and it finally crystalise to me in mortal kombat 11 of all things as it pointed out why it would be dumb and no good person would want it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

that is horrific and seemingly pointless why would they even be called good?

I do not know Dragonlance it was from my father's time, not mine hence I am applying the generic version of the balance between good and evil which to me always seemed daft and it finally crystalise to me in mortal kombat 11 of all things as it pointed out why it would be dumb and no good person would want it.

I am old enough to have read and even looked at playing it. YES the wizards stop all casters and force them into a test and not everyone lives through it. the 'renegades' that choose not to test are hunted like dogs.

So went and looked it up and I think I remember wrong... this wiki Test of High Sorcery says everyone that fails dies...

 

[DarkCrisis]

please elaborate?

(Old) Dragonlance sees advanced magic like being allowed to carry a Mass Destruction weapon. Imagine if any dude could just fireball a village if he felt the desire.

Keep in mind you don't have to Test until Level 3, i think? Maybe 5. You don't have to take the Test. If you decline, you just aren't allowed to learn any more magic. Also keep in mind the really cool 1st and 2nd level spells that exist.

So you have to "get a permit". This test is magical and if you survive you are wise enough to wield such power. Not only wield it but allowed to study at great magical libraries to further your arcane knowledge. You could get the power to literally alter reality or travel through time.

Mages are highly respected and properly feared. Also, just because you are an evil Black Robe doesn't mean you are CE. Abusing magic gets you put down period. Heck the leader of the White Robes dated the leader of the Black Robes.

So yeah, they regulate advanced magic but Joe Anyone with the power of a Nuke isn't something anyone would want.

NOW, Sorcerers and Warlocks throw this naughty word right out the window so whatever... Fireballs for everyone.

 

[Vaalingrade]

that is horrific and seemingly pointless why would they even be called good?

This is... a theme in Dragonlance.

I do not know Dragonlance it was from my father's time, not mine hence I am applying the generic version of the balance between good and evil which to me always seemed daft and it finally crystalise to me in mortal kombat 11 of all things as it pointed out why it would be dumb and no good person would want it.

DL at least addresses that in both a terrible way (Kingpriest gets to good, which makes him a geocidal facist against Evil, which gets the gods to do a genocide) and in an interesting way that at least in the early books I've read isn't really covered: All the gods are a family and simply going old school D&D evil!Good and murdering Evil for them would involve killing your sassy emo sister and sad old uncle.

 

[Mind of tempest]

(Old) Dragonlance sees advanced magic like being allowed to carry a Mass Destruction weapon. Imagine if any dude could just fireball a village if he felt the desire.

Keep in mind you don't have to Test until Level 3, i think? Maybe 5. You don't have to take the Test. If you decline, you just aren't allowed to learn any more magic. Also keep in mind the really cool 1st and 2nd level spells that exist.

So you have to "get a permit". This test is magical and if you survive you are wise enough to wield such power. Not only wield it but allowed to study at great magical libraries to further your arcane knowledge. You could get the power to literally alter reality or travel through time.

Mages are highly respected and properly feared. Also, just because you are an evil Black Robe doesn't mean you are CE. Abusing magic gets you put down period. Heck the leader of the White Robes dated the leader of the Black Robes.

So yeah, they regulate advanced magic but Joe Anyone with the power of a Nuke isn't something anyone would want.

NOW, Sorcerers and Warlocks throw this naughty word right out the window so whatever... Fireballs for everyone.

look I get that but killing them as a standardised test outcome seems beyond the pale nowhere has been that mad with its education system.

This is... a theme in Dragonlance.

how do people fail to understand good do they just not think about it or something?

DL at least addresses that in both a terrible way (Kingpriest gets to good, which makes him a geocidal facist against Evil, which gets the gods to do a genocide) and in an interesting way that at least in the early books I've read isn't really covered: All the gods are a family and simply going old school D&D evil!Good and murdering Evil for them would involve killing your sassy emo sister and sad old uncle.

look I can conceive of very few situations where killing vast amounts of people would be justifiable let alone "good" but there is no such thing as good fasisum it is like saying evil=good it does not make sense without some kind of reasoning of there being no way other than to commit an evil act as the situation is horrible.
secondly, if they are family have they tried to reason and working through things like sane demiurge category powers which admittedly is rear than hen's teeth but have they tried?

also why the balance then?

also what are they evil gods of anyway as normally you only need like one or two not an equal number?

 

[DarkCrisis]

look I get that but killing them as a standardised test outcome seems beyond the pale nowhere has been that mad with its education system.

how do people fail to understand good do they just not think about it or something?

look I can conceive of very few situations where killing vast amounts of people would be justifiable let alone "good" but there is no such thing as good fasisum it is like saying evil=good it does not make sense without some kind of reasoning of there being no way other than to commit an evil act as the situation is horrible.
secondly, if they are family have they tried to reason and working through things like sane demiurge category powers which admittedly is rear than hen's teeth but have they tried?

also why the balance then?

also what are they evil gods of anyway as normally you only need like one or two not an equal number?

Magic is your life. If you want the literal power to alter the fabric of the universe you have to want to die for it. That's the test. Is it important enough for you to risk your life over? If not, walk away no harm and no foul. It's THAT important. Wizards of all robes are brothers/sisters. They will die to protect the art. A Black Robe literally sacrifices himself (An evil black robe, keep that in mind) to protect one of the centers of learning/power for the mages. It's THAT serious. DL treats magic is VERY SERIOUS. Do you want magic enough to risk your life for it? If not, walk away.

 

[Alzrius]

I thought that in one of the early books, it says that the spirit of Fistandantilus was the reason some mages died during the Test. If so, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, from what I can tell.

EDIT: Found it! It's from Margaret Weis's prequel novel The Soulforge, book 5, chapter four, when Raistlin takes the Test:

"And so you contrive to enter the Test and lure young mages like me into your web," said Raistlin. "I would guess that I am not the first. What has happened to those who came before me?"

Fistandantilus shrugged. "They died. I told you. They spoke to me. The conclave fears that I will enter into the body of a young mage, take him over and so return to the world to complete what I began. They cannot allow that, and so each time they see to it that the threat is eliminated."

Raistlin gazed steadily at the old man, the dying old man. "I don't believe you. The mages died, but it was not the conclave who killed them. It was you. That's how you've managed to live for so long––if you call it living."

"Call it what you will, it is preferable to the great nothingness I see reaching out for me," Fistandantilus said with a hideous grin. "The same nothingness that is reaching out for you, young mage."

"I have little choice, it seems," replied Raistlin bitterly. "Either I die at the hands of three wizards or I am to be sucked dry by a lich."

"It was your decision to come down here," Fistandantilus replied.

 

[Faolyn]

that is horrific and seemingly pointless why would they even be called good?

I think the problem is that the creators treated Good and Evil as both cosmic forces and as moralities, and I honestly don't think there's a way to do that that makes any real sense. So we're made to believe that the White Robes are morally good when they should just be considered to be on Team X, as opposed to Team Y and Team Z.

Personally, I think if a setting should have cosmic forces you align yourself to, they should have names other than Good/Neutral/Evil. And if you have alignments to describe morality, then they should not be cosmic forces.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Magic is your life. If you want the literal power to alter the fabric of the universe you have to want to die for it. That's the test. Is it important enough for you to risk your life over? If not, walk away no harm and no foul. It's THAT important. Wizards of all robes are brothers/sisters. They will die to protect the art. A Black Robe literally sacrifices himself (An evil black robe, keep that in mind) to protect one of the centers of learning/power for the mages. It's THAT serious. DL treats magic is VERY SERIOUS. Do you want magic enough to risk your life for it? If not, walk away.

given that you could just send them away to keep them from learning the dangerous stuff killing them seems unreasonable as how are they going to trial and error most of the dangerous stuff without proper training?
magic is a fair bit harder than basic math?

I think the problem is that the creators treated Good and Evil as both cosmic forces and as moralities, and I honestly don't think there's a way to do that that makes any real sense. So we're made to believe that the White Robes are morally good when they should just be considered to be on Team X, as opposed to Team Y and Team Z.

Personally, I think if a setting should have cosmic forces you align yourself to, they should have names other than Good/Neutral/Evil. And if you have alignments to describe morality, then they should not be cosmic forces.

it logically could work but it would likely take a far better writing than most working today let alone two randoms who made a good adventure

 

[Faolyn]

it logically could work but it would likely take a far better writing than most working today let alone two randoms who made a good adventure

See, I'm still not entirely sure it could work well.

You'd have to explain why Good and Evil and Neutrality haven't destroyed each other without one or more sides being weak (which is dumb) and without a strange need for balance (which often feels like a cop-out and quite frankly has been done to death, and a lot of things that are considered evil actually aren't), without Good being just as bad as evil but it's OK because they're good (like how in the 3x Book of Exalted deeds, they had things that were basically poisons but had a different name because Good people don't use poison), and why Good, Neutral, and Evil would be willing to work together (like in a mage's college). And without it resorting to "writer's fiat." I don't mind a good versus evil storyline--they can be pretty good--but it often uses very tired tropes.

OK, a good writer could probably make it work... but then you have players coming in and messing everything up.