Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[GMforPowergamers]

It is what it is. Why does every setting have to conform to 21st century views of morality?

only ones published for mass markets in the 21st century

 

[Faolyn]

As I have been informed, this is for people who are not me. I would love if one day they would make things for people who are me, but its been a while since that's been the case. Normally I wouldn't care, but as I've mentioned the old TSR settings mean a lot to me and I don't want to remember them the way WotC wants to make them now.

WotC can do what they want, and other people will certainly like it. I'll just have to ignore it and all the discussion about it for the next few months.

I really wish WotC would put out a new product I liked, so I would have something positive to say about the new hotness.

Have you ever considered going into the books with an open mind? You seem to believe that it must be exactly the same for it to be any good, and any deviance bothers you. It might do you a world of good to read these books and not compare it to the old ones, but to treat it as its own thing.

 

[Pauln6]

From the River of TIme DL14 Dragons of Triumph

View attachment 262278
So much for the whole "they only sent one guy to stop the Kingpriest". "Oh, the Kingpriest is a good guy"? Really? Does that little snippet of history present the notion that the Kingpriest is good and/or right?

I think even Caramon, a LG character, states that 'goblins don't count' when it comes to genocide.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Forgotten Realms is anything but Post Apocalyptic. It's pretty much the exact opposite.

That's because at any given time, it's going through an apocalypse and never gets any time to be 'post' anything.

 

[gban007]

From the River of TIme DL14 Dragons of Triumph

View attachment 262278
So much for the whole "they only sent one guy to stop the Kingpriest". "Oh, the Kingpriest is a good guy"? Really? Does that little snippet of history present the notion that the Kingpriest is good and/or right?

Going to repost a bit of what I posted in a thread earlier this year - but the word of the Lawful Good God is that the Kingpriest was good:

The ending of the first trilogy had Fizban saying:
'There was a time when good held sway .. right before the Cataclysm'.
'Yes, the Kingpriest of Istar was a good man! Does that surprise you?'
'You've seen it in the Elves, the ancient embodiment of good. It breeds intolerance, rigidity, a belief that because I am right, those who don't believe as I do are wrong'

I think it depends on what you've read, I wonder how many people who read the first trilogy went on to read the second - I imagine the majority, but how significant, as the twins trilogy added more nuance I think / information I think that sort of contradicts what Fizban said, and a lot smaller group would have read the adventures / other books (I read quite a few, but really went downhill to my mind after the first 6 books).
But if main memories are from the first trilogy, it is pretty clear there that yes the Kingpriest is good. (Not necessarily right, but good).

 

[Hussar]

I think even Caramon, a LG character, states that 'goblins don't count' when it comes to genocide.

Quote please.

And look. I understand that things will be changed in the new book. They SHOULD be changed. There’s tons of cringeworthy stuff there that really needs to be addressed.

I am the last person to stand on tradition. I have zero problems with fae based kender. Heck I think that particular change is an improvement. But if people are going to take big steaming dumps on the setting, at least have the common decency to actually READ the work first.

 

[Hussar]

Going to repost a bit of what I posted in a thread earlier this year - but the word of the Lawful Good God is that the Kingpriest was good:

The ending of the first trilogy had Fizban saying:
'There was a time when good held sway .. right before the Cataclysm'.
'Yes, the Kingpriest of Istar was a good man! Does that surprise you?'
'You've seen it in the Elves, the ancient embodiment of good. It breeds intolerance, rigidity, a belief that because I am right, those who don't believe as I do are wrong'

I think it depends on what you've read, I wonder how many people who read the first trilogy went on to read the second - I imagine the majority, but how significant, as the twins trilogy added more nuance I think / information I think that sort of contradicts what Fizban said, and a lot smaller group would have read the adventures / other books (I read quite a few, but really went downhill to my mind after the first 6 books).
But if main memories are from the first trilogy, it is pretty clear there that yes the Kingpriest is good. (Not necessarily right, but good).

This? This right here? This is how you criticize a work. Actual first source quotes.

Well done you.

If you change “good” to “law” that quote works much better. But back then, DnD equated the two. Hopefully the new release touches on this to give it a bit more nuance.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

But back then, DnD equated the two.

Did it? Because the 3x3 Alignment system was introduced before Dragonlance was made. The 9 alignments date back to 1977's Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set, while the Dragonlance setting was made 5 years later in 1982. I don't know when the stuff about the Kingpriests was added, but were good/law and evil/chaos really conflated then?

(I'm sincerely asking, because I'm not familiar with this part of D&D history. If it was, I'd still have problems with Dragonlance listing them as good and saying that too much "good" makes tyranny, but that does explain it a bit.)

 

[Azzy]

Did it? Because the 3x3 Alignment system was introduced before Dragonlance was made. The 9 alignments date back to 1977's Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set, while the Dragonlance setting was made 5 years later in 1982. I don't know when the stuff about the Kingpriests was added, but were good/law and evil/chaos really conflated then?

No, they weren't.

 

[humble minion]

Quote please.

Not taking a side in this one, but the particular Caramon quote is from Autumn Twilight, it doesn't specifically reference genocide though. The context is weird - an argument after Caramon tried to knock out a couple of goblins who spotted the blue crystal staff, and hit them too hard and killed them accidentally. The whole sequence is mostly designed to illustrate that Sturm is stiff-necked and lets his honour get in the way, and pump up Tanis's leadership abilities for smoothing over a potential row within the group.

"Where are we getting the boat?" Sturm asked suspiciously.

"You'll be happier not knowing," the half-elf said.

The knight frowned. His eyes followed the kender, who was far ahead of them, flitting from one shadow to another. "I don't like this, Tanis. First we're murderers, now we're about to become thieves."

"I don't consider myself a murderer." Caramon snorted. "Goblins don't count."

Tanis saw the knight glare at Caramon. "I don't like any of this, Sturm," he said hastily, hoping to avoid an argument. "But it's a matter of necessity. "