D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[Voadam]

You could always play the game as it was originally intended and that was with three levels. The only reason they added more levels was because of AD&D.
Most young people today don't realize that D&D in it's current form is still the Advanced version which is why there is bell curve to comprehend and retain the rules and mechanics to some extent.

Anyway it's probably too late to do these kinds of restrictions, since video games enable you to play godlike characters and real gods.

OD&D from 1974 was not limited to 3 levels. It has charts for 16th level Magic-Users.

You might be thinking of the 1981 Moldvay Basic Set which covers 3 levels but even that has some (incomplete) rules and references for some higher level stuff and notes there is an Expert Set covering levels 4-14.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well obviously you can do that now, but are you asking for WotC to provide you with "official" rules/guidelines for such things?

yes, I would think that is obvious. we aren't talking about house rules here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yes, I would think that is obvious. we aren't talking about house rules here.

Maybe we should be. Based on what I'm seeing on this board, 1DD is only going to really please a very small portion of us.

 

[Garthanos]

Maybe we should be. Based on what I'm seeing on this board, 1DD is only going to really please a very small portion of us.

I think its too early in the process to conclude that... even though I also hear grumbling elsewhere.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think its too early in the process to conclude that... even though I also hear grumbling elsewhere.

Well by us, I mean forum going veterans with too much emotional investment...like me! The general gaming masses probably don't care either way.

 

[Belen]

So, this post by @James Gasik really hit home and got me thinking about something...


For some reason (I really cannot tell you why!) the last few years I've been playing 5E I've desired a "low-magic" style setting/game. I have been all of keeping it more mundane, heroic but not "superheroic", keeping magic and magical items rare, making the game gritty with easier death and harder recovery.

And I don't know WHY I have felt this way...

I began decades ago with B/X and AD&D and I was perfectly happy up to 3rd edition with flying wizards, teleportation, and similar magic mention in the quote above. I never had any problem with mighty magic weapons and regions of mystical mysteries lost for ages, where strange and unusual were common occurrences.

But, for some unknown reason, in 5E I don't seem to want it anymore, while it is part of the game (as James says...) and has been for years.

So, I am not seeking answers, but if anyone has thoughts or wants to discuss it, please let me know. It would be nice if I could find a reason why...

Concentration is a massive check on magic in 5e. Many of the spells require it. It allows for disruption. I do miss the flavor and consequences of magic pre-3.5, but concentration does a really good job of balancing it in the game.

 

[Belen]

That was the idea of 4e. State and deliver a clear vision. Provide a solid, functional core. Test it to make sure it works as intended. Fix it when it doesn't. Outside the intended areas of focus, give clear and effective advice and examples and get out of the way.

I'm not usually one to make arguments of this kind, but...if the influential and vocal minority responded so badly before, what would make that change now?

It was not a minority. A huge base of players jumped ship and went to Pathfinder. D&D works best as a kitchen sink system that incorporates multiple styles of play. 4e was a system where only one style was allowed.

 

[Garthanos]

Concentration is a massive check on magic in 5e. Many of the spells require it. It allows for disruption. I do miss the flavor and consequences of magic pre-3.5, but concentration does a really good job of balancing it in the game.

It definitely has an impact on magics causing compounding effects or even different effects ... the advantage/disadvantage system also has a "similar effect" ie fairrie fire and being proned will both make you vulnerable to melee attacks but not doubly so.

 

[Garthanos]

D&D works best as a kitchen sink system that incorporates multiple styles of play.

What qualifies as a "style of play"? AND how much DM work do you think is acceptable to achieve it?

There are a ton that I consider a style of play which I cannot do well in 5e without ummm hacking the game to pieces and rebuilding.

In comparison to 4e and 3e (according to 3e fans on here), Just achieving tactical play in 5e let alone strategic requires what feels like a ton of adjustments to the game starting with monster rewrites and many many rules tweaks. CR is extremely unreliable when compared to the 4e methodologies... so predictable encounter difficulties useful for both game oriented play and narrative does not seem well supported.

And even small elements like fully supported story driven number of encounters / short rests in your play fights against what passes for class balance of 5e. I do not see that as supporting narrative gaming.

I do not see 5e actually supporting a lot of styles its more of an advertisement than a reality. And the DM tools for adding in alternative rules are more of a head nod at it, lacking any sort of indicator about the implications of how the rules changes might interact.

 

[dave2008]

yes, I would think that is obvious. we aren't talking about house rules here.

Do you consider 3PP house rules?

Of course you can adjudicate almost anything with the rules and guidelines provided, but it relies on the DM more than what you are looking for I am guessing.

For example, the basilisk's Pertifying Gaze says: ... On a failure, the creature is petrified until freed by the greater restoration spell or other magic.

IMO, as DM, it is within the rules and guidelines of the game to allow an arcana or nature check to allow the PCs to learn that washing a petrified victim with 2 pints of fresh basilisk blood within 24 hrs of petrification reverses the effect. From the DMG I would assign the following DCs*:

• Blood reverses petrification: DC 10 arcana, DC 15 nature
• 2 pints of blood are required: DC 15 arcana, DC 20 Nature
• 24 hr limit of effectiveness: DC 15 arcana, DC 20 Nature

*These values might change based on the type of campaign I am running.

That is all without house rules IMO. It is just adjudicating actions.