D&D (2024) One D&D Expert Classes Playtest Document Is Live

The One D&D Expert Class playest document is now available to download. You can access it by signing into your D&D Beyond account at the link below. It contains three classes -- bard, rogue, and ranger, along with three associated subclasses (College of Lore, Thief, and Hunter), plus a number of feats.

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[Faolyn]

That's some serious goalpost shifting there.

Not at all. The goalpost is "the spells are necessary." I showed that they really weren't.

Locate Animal is a 2nd level spell.

Which they get at 5th level (and bards and druids get it at 3rd). And that's a spell slot wasted to track an animal instead on something more useful. Maybe if the party is starving and the ranger needs to hunt or they'll all die. Or if they need to find a very specific herb to make the cure for a strange disease. But outside of very niche quests, how often is tracking an animal or plant that important?

Speak with Animals. Speak with Plants - both very useful for tracking enemies.

If a mindless plant can give useful information, of course.

Summon Fey or Conjure Animals, both fantastic for tracking -

They get both of those spells at 9th level (available to druids, warlocks, and wizards at 5th). Also, summon fey costs 300 gp to cast (summon beasts cost 200). Now, you could mean conjure fey, which is free, but I have a feeling that the pricey summon spells are going to replace those for 1D&D. But anyway, you'd have rangers be absolutely mundane trackers for eight levels rather than let them have nonmagical means of doing these things--things that actual, real-life people can do without magic?

at least in the short term. 8 wolves is a pretty good way of tracking something. Never minding Animal Friendship. Saying that there is only one spell - locate creature is a bit of a stretch.

And these spells last an hour. Better hope you can track your quarry in that time, otherwise you'll be spending your very few spell slots on tracking instead of in combat, where they'll be useful.

I'd also like to point out that most fey that are summonable at this level don't have really amazing tracking skills. Actually, I just checked. There are almost no beasts or fey of CR 6 or lower that have the Survival skill (and at least one of the fey is actually incredibly evil), and most of them that have Perception have it at lower than what you can expect a PC ranger to have: the average animal has Wisdom in the 10-13, and a very few fey have Wisdom of 14-16, will have a +2 or +3 PB. Whereas your 9th-level ranger probably has Wisdom 16 and a +4 PB (and as I mentioned, in 1D&D, might have expertise in Survival, giving them a +11 to their roll). Literally the only logical reason to summon a fey to track for you is to send them in one direction while you go in another. You don't even need them to give you the Help action if you have another person in your party who can help you out. And you better hope you have a DM who doesn't like playing fey as tricksy tricksters.

Best you can hope for with magic is to get enhance ability cast on you, but again, you can't do that until you're 5th level (and you can't have that and a conjure/summon spell going at the same time thanks to concentration). Your 1D&D druid pal can cast that on you at 3rd level, though, as can your 5e bards, clerics, and sorcerers.

Due to third-caster spell progression, rangers are always going to be too little, too late when it comes to magic.

Plus, if you use a spell for something that is perfectly achievable through mundane means... well, that just continues to make magic boring and ordinary, not the amazing wonder it should be. Personally, if there's going to be magic in my game, I want it to be magical.

 

[SkidAce]

It's like saying that Bards are the perfect James Bond or something.

Hmmm, both:

Mainline charisma, seduce things, lots of bluff, and deception...

I am beginning to see a parallel here...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In that case, they shouldn't be limited to nature/hunting-type magic. They should have access to any sort of magic, whatever helps them be crazy-prepared.

They don’t need fireball, and playing rhetorical gotcha games doesn’t actually lead to satisfying answers.

The Ranger’s job, their place in the world, makes it sensible that they would learn the magic most useful in the wilds and on the road.

I’d happily add some utility magic from other spheres to the ranger. Their current spell list does a great job as it is, however, once they’re allowed to prepare their toolkit and access thier full list rather than the terrible anemic breadth of spells in the 2014 writeup.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If a mindless plant can give useful information, of course

Might want to reread speak with plants.

It isn’t a mindless plant, while under the spells effects.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Due to third-caster spell progression

You mean half-caster.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No. The ruleson pages 244has if thereis notrail to follow, the DM can rule tracking is impossible. Which at that point lik@Hussar says, you might be forced to cast Speak with Animals or Speak with Plants to ask for leads or cast Summon Fey or Conjure Animals to hunt by scent or heat or vibration.

Older editions straight up had spells that gave rangers scent or made tracks magically appear or let them reroll before the trail goes cold.

They should add heightened smell and hearing to alter self.

I do get the desire for more mechanical representation of tracking skill than the ability to gain expertise in survival, though. The utility spells could use a fresh coat of paint, as it were.

Not trying to be harsh, btw; just thinking about the other thread about how 5e is akin to the Cheesecake Factory and it's obvious that popularity is the goal, not game design for another kind of experience (or interesting design for its own sake).

Thank the gods for that.

I’m glad people have fun designing stuff for the sake of experimenting with what games can do. I enjoy game design, too.

But when playing D&D, I want to just sit down at the table and play, including with my friends who don’t care how big the designer’s brain is, they just want a simple and satisfying play experience where most of what they do doesn’t require referencing the rule book.

This idea that the designers don’t care about making a well designed game is born more from your biases and preferences than from anything outside yourself.

 

[Faolyn]

You mean half-caster.

Yeah, sorry. Wrong name, right casting levels, though.

Might want to reread speak with plants.

It isn’t a mindless plant, while under the spells effects.

Sure. But how much does it actually know? It's a plant.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, sorry. Wrong name, right casting levels, though.


Sure. But how much does it actually know? It's a plant.

You can question Plants about events in the spell's area within the past day, gaining information about Creatures that have passed, weather, and other circumstances.

Apparently quite a lot actually.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, sorry. Wrong name, right casting levels, though.

Hardly. The difference between the two is massive.
Now, I’ll grant that the spell progression of half casters is not great, but frankly that’s only an argument for more spell exclusivity, not for ditching Spellcasting.

Sure. But how much does it actually know? It's a plant.

You’re reaching, here, I think. The intent of the spell is very plainly that you can find out what’s gone on in the area, but not fine details of complex stuff like social interactions.

 

[Eric V]

This idea that the designers don’t care about making a well designed game is born more from your biases and preferences than from anything outside yourself.

Ummm...no.

In the other thread, Umbran points out that one needs to discuss design goals when evaluating if the design is well-done or not.

The goal for 5e, clearly, is to be popular. As a result, design is simple, as you point out. This means, for example, removing nuance from the game and just defaulting to "spells" for anything pcs do that is even slightly above ordinary.

With popularity and simplicity as design goals, it is well-designed.