D&D (2024) What's your opinion on the standardization of Spellcasters?

[DEFCON 1]

I'm sure. Because the game should be about having fun with all aspects of the game and when the mechanics and what some might call in a needlessly derisive and antagonistic manner 'board game' are not fun, it is a problem worth discussing and yes 'getting up in arms over'.

And what's really not worth 'getting up in arms over' is constantly bashing people in the face about how one doesn't care. Why even be in a discussion to tell people not to have a discussion? What does that achieve?

It's to try and get people to lighten up. The way some of the folks here react to the most miniscule of changes makes one think they're very lifeblood is pumped into this game and that WotC is trying to drain it out of them like some sort of gaming vampire. Heck... just seeing the way some people are getting all bent out of shape over the Ranger changes (or lack thereof) is proof to me of that.

If people want to get up in arms about the game, that is more than their right and I'm never going to stop them from speaking their piece. But if they do that... they should be very secure in their beliefs that their getting up in arms is the right decision. So secure in fact that when some rando internet schmuck like me says their reactions are ridiculous and they are making way too many mountains out of molehills... they should be able to keep their chin up high and know that they are right despite what I might say to them.

But if someone gets defensive that another person dares to say that their reaction to these things are overblown and maybe they need to realize that the design of this game isn't for them specifically and WotC has no desire to cater to them specifically... then that's just too bad. Their beliefs are not above criticism, just like my beliefs can be safely ignored by them if they think I'm full of crap. And believe you me... there are plenty of people who think my opinions are full of crap too. But that doesn't bother me and it doesn't stop me from posting what I feel is correct.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Some parts I like, some parts I hate.

Standardising spells prepared and spell slots is something I like. It heavily reduces book keeping and helps newer players know how many slots/spells they have. Making everyone prepared casters is cool too. At this point, spells known was just a holdover from previous editions, and classes saddled with it were just worse than classes without it.

In theory like the standardised spell lists. With classes picking from power sources and schools. However in practice it's just not working without a 4th power source. It cripples bards identity and requires a patch to be glued on in the form of songs of restoration. Lack of a 4th power source also ensures that they will never be able to add a psionic based class for the rest of this edition. And if they do it will never see support as its power source won't be in the PHB.

An occult power source for bards, warlocks, psions, and/or a psionic sorcerer subclass is needed to make the system come together.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Some caveats to a Root recommendation, spoilered to avoid the primary thread content:

Spoiler: Root Thoughts

Root is beautiful as an object and can be a lot of fun, but it's a game I wouldn't recommend without caveats. Notably, the game is a quite tight and brutal race for points that can feel very lopsided if the players aren't generally at the same experience level, and that the game heavily rewards understanding every faction around the table, as absolute score values are often not indicative of how much reach a faction may have in the last couple turns. It also requires a strong "beat up the leader" social contract, or it will fall apart.

All of which is to say, it's a great game, but a surprisingly cruel one with what can be a very abrupt ending and I've seen a lot of people aesthetically excited about it end up disappointed with the actual gameplay. In many ways, it feels more similar to something like a Splotter game than a conventional wargame.

You are not the first to make this point about the game that I've read... which I think is part of the reason I've never decided to jump in with both feet. Thank you for adding another voice confirming my understanding! The idea that there's no "base gameplay" to learn that applies across the board makes the idea of having to play every faction many times each a little daunting and I just don't know if I need to learn a game like that that much.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I feel like they could’ve just said ‘all classes can either be known or memorised casters, known gets more spells accessed but is locked into them between levels, memorised has less spells accessed but can switch them up between every day, these classes are typically known casters and these casters are typically memorised.’

I feel the reason they're moving from known to prepared is that WotC feels that players shouldn't feel constrained or forced to make choices and trade-offs. This way, it doesn't matter what spells you choose, since you can choose something different the next day. It also simplifies the game, which seems to be their top priority.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Oh, I couldn’t disagree more.

That’s all also true of spell point based casting…

Only if spell point casting is the default system used by all spellcasters.

Idk how my point is being missed, so I’ll try again.

My contention is not that 5e prepared spells caster is inherently better than other models as a baseline. It is my preferred one, but what my contention actually is, is that it is better for the game for all spellcasters to have things in common by default, and keep alternate systems as options that any class can switch to.

Rather than a spell points class, fully think out the spell points system so that it is fairly balanced on any spellcaster.

I also hate spell points outside of video games, so there is that. The only way I’d be down is if it were simply 1-1 spell slots to spell points, and even then I’d rather use the current spell slot system.

 

[SkidAce]

I feel the reason they're moving from known to prepared is that WotC feels that players shouldn't feel constrained or forced to make choices and trade-offs. This way, it doesn't matter what spells you choose, since you can choose something different the next day. It also simplifies the game, which seems to be their top priority.

Doesn't fit fiction for me. IF this is the way ahead;

Dont need wizard schools (automatically know and can prepare all spells on list, technically including new ones as books are published)
Dont need to research existing spells (see above)
Dont need to acquire enemy spell books (see above)
Dont need to trade or purchase spells (see above)

Somebody across the continent relearns the ancient spells if Wundabar, poof* they are on the list, all wizards can prep.
*wait, they were always on the list and prepare able.

I mean I don't think I've seen any limit on spell prepare able for clerics, technically they know ALL of them (or are granted access to). At least not written in the books anywhere.

Now, I am tongue in cheek and exaggerating for effect, as IF they do this, I already have a solution, the same thing I do for clerics (might have said this upthread already, my bad)

Clerics can only prepare from the Player's Handbook. All other cleric spells in other books are esoteric mysteries, proprietary to certain sects or religions.

IF this goes through as folks speculate, I will do the same for wizard's. PH are the commonly known spells. I already remove teleport type spells for the current camapign from the 2 free spells per level, so I even have precedent.

BL: Won't like it, won't slow us down or cause any distress.

 

[SkidAce]

Oh, and the oddity of a sorcerer born of ice and knowing ice spells, deciding to go full fire the next day, doesn't sit well with us.

Meh...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Doesn't fit fiction for me. IF this is the way ahead;

Dont need wizard schools (automatically know and can prepare all spells on list, technically including new ones as books are published)
Dont need to research existing spells (see above)
Dont need to acquire enemy spell books (see above)
Dont need to trade or purchase spells (see above)

Somebody across the continent relearns the ancient spells if Wundabar, poof* they are on the list, all wizards can prep.
*wait, they were always on the list and prepare able.

I mean I don't think I've seen any limit on spell prepare able for clerics, technically they know ALL of them (or are granted access to). At least not written in the books anywhere.

Now, I am tongue in cheek and exaggerating for effect, as IF they do this, I already have a solution, the same thing I do for clerics (might have said this upthread already, my bad)

Clerics can only prepare from the Player's Handbook. All other cleric spells in other books are esoteric mysteries, proprietary to certain sects or religions.

IF this goes through as folks speculate, I will do the same for wizard's. PH are the commonly known spells. I already remove teleport type spells for the current camapign from the 2 free spells per level, so I even have precedent.

BL: Won't like it, won't slow us down or cause any distress.

I don't like it either. I'm speculating on WotC's motives, not supporting them.

 

[MoonSong]

Oh, and the oddity of a sorcerer born of ice and knowing ice spells, deciding to go full fire the next day, doesn't sit well with us.

Meh...

I know you have said that you plan to rule 0 everything that doesn't work for you, but, have you considered filling the upcoming survey?

 

[SkidAce]

I will indeed, with a more succinct and coherent form of what I posted above.