D&D (2024) Subclasses should start at 1st level

[UngeheuerLich]

I leaped with enthusiasm for level 1.

Wizard should be level 1, because some Wizard subclasses like Bladesinger need to be structurally different from other subclasses.

The bladesinger should be no single classed wizard anyway
I´d rather add an arcane half caster into the mix....

 

[Yaarel]

The bladesinger should be no single classed wizard anyway
I´d rather add an arcane half caster into the mix....

I like how the Bladesinger is a fullcaster.

 

[Yaarel]

It is worthwhile to standardize the amount of design for a subclass across all classes. Schedule the same levels for the subclass features in a character advancement table, so they can apply to all classes.



The UA Ranger gains spells at:
levels 1 (3), 5 (7), 9 (11), 13 (15), and 17 (19).

The 2014 Fighter and Rogue gain spells at:
levels 3 (4), 7 (10), 13 (16), 19.

A future UA Fighter and Rogue can easily gain spells from level 1:
levels 1 (4), 7 (10), 13 (16), and 19,
for a smooth spell progression every third level.



It is convenient to coordinate the levels for the subclasses with the same levels when Fighter and Rogue gain spells.

For example, going by the 2014 Fighter-Rogue, all classes can gain subclass features at levels 1, 7, 13, and 19.

Possibly schedule the subclass features to coordinate with levels 1-and-4, then 7, 13, and 19, to help flesh out the mechanics early on for the subclass concept.

Alternatively, coordinate subclass features for all classes with the spells at:
levels 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17.

 

[Yaarel]

The Fighting Styles are said to cost a feat. But they are not worth a feat.

A Fighting Style should at least be worth half of a feat. (The Archery Fighting Style is an extra good half-feat.) When taking a Fighting Style as a feat, it should also grant an extra +1 ability score improvement as well.

Where the Fighting Style is a design space of a half-feat, a Fighting Style can easily grant spellcasting. For example: a hypothetical "Eldritch Fighting Style" can grant a 1st-slot spell and a cantrip, plus some minor feature. Then the rest of the spells can come later.

If the UA updates the Fighting Styles to be more powerful and worth a full feat, then the Eldritch Fighting Style can grant the full suite of two 1st-slot spells and two cantrips, plus something like the Arcane skill proficiency, at level 1.

 

[cbwjm]

The bladesinger should be no single classed wizard anyway
I´d rather add an arcane half caster into the mix....

I would like a warrior-mage half-caster too, but people keep coming back with "but what story would that tell" or "what character is it trying to portray".

 

[Vaalingrade]

If so, decide when that point was, then back up two weeks. There. There’s your starting point for a level 1.

No. That's not the character I'm playing.

I'm not here to play the Zero. I'm not here to waste my time playing something that isn't the character I want just because some people want a zero level the designers don't actually want to give them or to 'earn' the right or something. They're going to be asking like $50 for this book, so let's not hedge people out of 10% of the game by making the first two levels unappealing and pretty much a bait and switch vis-a-vi the idea of 'play what you want'.

 

[Bill Zebub]

No. That's not the character I'm playing.

I'm not here to play the Zero. I'm not here to waste my time playing something that isn't the character I want just because some people want a zero level the designers don't actually want to give them or to 'earn' the right or something. They're going to be asking like $50 for this book, so let's not hedge people out of 10% of the game by making the first two levels unappealing and pretty much a bait and switch vis-a-vi the idea of 'play what you want'.

Well, you may not want this game, then.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What is best for the game overall?

Just making 10% of the game a disappointment for both the people who want a genuine zero level and people who want to play their characters for the entire game?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Well, you may not want this game, then.

I don't need it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Just making 10% of the game a disappointment for both the people who want a genuine zero level and people who want to play their characters for the entire game?

That is a valid point of view. Other people might love the Idea.
Is 10% of 60 bucks, around 2 cups of coffee worth arguing?

Then you already have 10 levels that you use so rarely, that those could be easily done away with and most people would not notice it in play.
So make those levels more accessible and then there is enough room for apprentice levels.