What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see?

[Paul Farquhar]

A show with Bombadil as the protagonist? I’m imagining it centering around his domestic scene with Goldberry with cameos from notable local personages like Gandalf, Butterbur, and prominent hobbits. The primary antagonists would be Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights plotting against Tom incessantly, and the action would all take place in the vicinity of the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs. I suppose Tom’s development as a character would involve him being challenged to operate outside his comfort zone.

ETA: What time period do you imagine the show takes place? Before or after the LotR?

Sounds like a good basis for a sitcom. I'd watch it.

 

[MarkB]

A show with Bombadil as the protagonist? I’m imagining it centering around his domestic scene with Goldberry with cameos from notable local personages like Gandalf, Butterbur, and prominent hobbits. The primary antagonists would be Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights plotting against Tom incessantly, and the action would all take place in the vicinity of the Old Forest and the Barrow Downs. I suppose Tom’s development as a character would involve him being challenged to operate outside his comfort zone.

ETA: What time period do you imagine the show takes place? Before or after the LotR?

I'm imagining Tom Bombadil as the ultimate unreliable narrator, being a framing device as he recounts numerous tales from his past, but constantly getting details muddled, trailing off to talk about the latest forest gossip, or switching mid-story to telling another tale and never actually getting back on-track.

Goldberry would salvage the most important details by filling in the gaps based upon past tellings, or nudging him back on-track.

 

[John R Davis]

Bombadil-Vision

 

[Cadence]

I'd like a sort of anthology series something like American Horror Story, with a Season each for Beren & Luthien, Turin Turambar, the Fall of Gondolin, and the voyage of Earendil at least.

I would go for this if I could trust the producers...

So maybe just the books.

---

I just had a vision of a short where Legalos and Gimli head to the west like the appendices say might have happened. But they get shipwrecked on Tol Morwen and Gimli has some choice words.

 

[Dausuul]

Mostly because a lot of TV and Hollywood screenwriters actually CAN do a better job of adapting a print author's story for the screen. Not everyone can, but I seriously doubt Tolkien would have done a particularly good job of writing a screenplay or teleplay.

It is certainly true that you wouldn't want Tolkien writing TV scripts. There are a few cases of adaptations where the writer of the books also has experience working in TV ("Game of Thrones" and "Sandman" are the two that come to mind offhand), but they are the exception to the rule.

However, there is a deeper point here: The shape of the story, and the motivations and interactions of the characters, were crafted with a purpose by someone who knew what they were doing and did it well (if they hadn't done it well, nobody would be trying to make an adaptation). If you lose that, you lose what makes the whole thing work. Adapting the story means you have to grasp what the author was doing and why, to see not just surface details but the underlying vision, and hold onto that vision--the author's vision, not yours--even as you change a lot of details to fit the new medium.

It is not easy, and it's especially hard if you can't talk to the original author. I think Peter Jackson did about as good a job as could be done without Tolkien there to explain himself, and even so, there was quite a lot lost in translation (which is probably why Christopher Tolkien was famously unhappy with the movies).

I mean, we are currently watching a show that features 6 different cultures all headed for absolute catastrophe, 2 of whom already experienced it (the Southlanders and the Harfoots). Amazon, at least seems ready to set up absolute tragedy already.

Cultures suffering catastrophe is easy. Everyone likes an apocalypse. Characters suffering a tragic ending is very different. George R. R. Martin is notorious for character deaths, but the Silmarillion makes Martin look like Mr. Rogers. If Ned Stark read it, he'd be glad he got off so easy.

And Turin's story is exceptionally terrible even for the Silmarillion. Everything good in his life turns to disaster, everyone he loves dies (many by Turin's own hand), and he finishes up by committing suicide.

 

[Parmandur]

Have you read the Children of Húrin?

Absolutely, it's right there on my shelf. It's profound and exquisite. Thst has nothing to do with the point that the Rings of Power, actively being made now, is all about tragedy and fall.

 

[Parmandur]

It is certainly true that you wouldn't want Tolkien writing TV scripts. There are a few cases of adaptations where the writer of the books also has experience working in TV ("Game of Thrones" and "Sandman" are the two that come to mind offhand), but they are the exception to the rule.

However, there is a deeper point here: The shape of the story, and the motivations and interactions of the characters, were crafted with a purpose by someone who knew what they were doing and did it well (if they hadn't done it well, nobody would be trying to make an adaptation). If you lose that, you lose what makes the whole thing work. Adapting the story means you have to grasp what the author was doing and why, to see not just surface details but the underlying vision, and hold onto that vision--the author's vision, not yours--even as you change a lot of details to fit the new medium.

It is not easy, and it's especially hard if you can't talk to the original author. I think Peter Jackson did about as good a job as could be done without Tolkien there to explain himself, and even so, there was quite a lot lost in translation (which is probably why Christopher Tolkien was famously unhappy with the movies).


Cultures suffering catastrophe is easy. Everyone likes an apocalypse. Characters suffering a tragic ending is very different. George R. R. Martin is notorious for character deaths, but the Silmarillion makes Martin look like Mr. Rogers. If Ned Stark read it, he'd be glad he got off so easy.

And Turin's story is exceptionally terrible even for the Silmarillion. Everything good in his life turns to disaster, everyone he loves dies (many by Turin's own hand), and he finishes up by committing suicide.

Yes, amd we see in rings of Power all the characters being set up for massive personal tragedy from the word go.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I second the idea. A series of short self-contained stories, without the pressure to spread each out for multiple seasons, would be great. I'd love to see the retaking of Moria and its subsequent fall. Heck, bring back Ken Stott as Balin. The war of the Valar against Morgoth.

I'd like a sort of anthology series something like American Horror Story, with a Season each for Beren & Luthien, Turin Turambar, the Fall of Gondolin, and the voyage of Earendil at least.

 

[Mercurius]

I have two answers, depending upon who is making the series, and how they approach and understand Tolkien's work.

If someone took a "Peter Jackson approach" - that is, not inserting themselves into it too much, but trying to adapt Tolkien and his ideas as faithfully as possible - then I'd love to see a full-blown Silmarillion series, or rather the Quenta Simarillion, aka the First Age. Maybe something like this:

Option One: Silmarillion Series
First season: Prologue depicts the Ainulindale, and the major events of the Years of the Lamps and Trees...would be hard to do, but with the right director could be really cool. The season proper begins with a supposedly-repentant Melkor being released by the Valar, the forging of the Silmarils by Feanor, the conflict among the elves, then Melkor stealing the Silmarils and Ungoliant killing the Two Trees. The season focuses on events in Aman, and culminates with Feanor leading elves to Beleriand, and then being killed by Balrogs. Ends with Fingolfin leaving Aman for Middle-earth.

Second season: Prologue depicts creation of sun and moon, awakening of Men, and establishment of the kingdoms of the Eldar in Beleriand. The main narrative starts sometime later, with Morgoth under siege in Angband for several centuries. Depicts arrival ("first contact") of men, and dwarves, and their alliance vs. Morgoth. Dagor Bragollach. Ends with death of Fingolfin.

Third season: Focus on men: Hurin and Huor, and then Beren and Luthien, and culminates in the fifth battle (Nirnaeth Arnoediad).

Fourth season: Focus on Turin and Tuor, fall of Nargothrond and then culminates in the fall of Gondolin.

Fifth season: Later years of the First Age. Earendil and the War of Wrath. Destruction of Angband. Ends with Morgoth being cast into the Void.

Or something like that! It could possibly be done in three 10-episode seasons, too. Oh, and no hobbits!

Option Two: Other Possibilities
Barring someone like Jackson, either another Amazon-esque series or studio who is less concerned with or capable of a faithful adaptation, a few ideas that come to mind:

Angmar: A series depicting the war between Arnor and Angmar and the Witch-king.

Dragons: A series focusing on the fight against dragons by the dwarves and men, in particular. The dragon Scatha could be central. Set around the same time as the above (1500-2000 TA), so could be combined.

Middle-earth: The Fourth Age. One of the great literary losses of the last century is that Tolkien didn't complete (barely started, really), his follow-up to the Lord of the Rings: The New Shadow. Evidently he didn't write more than 13 pages because it was just too depressing. Anyhow, I'd fast forward from LotR by at least a couple hundred years, maybe longer. Make sure all the canonical characters are dead or have passed over to the West, and then create new characters, with some new evil arising - perhaps a cult of Morgoth, or maybe another Balrog turns up, or one of the blue wizards comes back and is set on domination. Elves are dwindling and diminishing, dwarves becoming more insular. Etc.

The Blue Wizards: An entirely new story about the blue wizards in the East...there is so little written about them, but they remain a fun mystery, and at least the show-runners would have greater freedom to explore different stories and ideas. Maybe one becomes evil, and the series focuses on their fight against each other.

One final note: No Tom Bombadil. While I felt his (and Goldberry's) lack in the LotR films, I have since come to feel that it was probably for the best. Tom Bombadil is inherently an enigma - whether he is a Maia, Iluvatar itself, Tolkien inserting himself, or just an odd-ball, he is probably best left unexplained and un-depicted (that said, I would have liked to see Robin Williams in the role).

 

[Ryujin]

What about a series based on whatever the Rangers of the North were doing all that time, in the Third Age, while no one was looking?