What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see?

[Hriston]

Mostly because a lot of TV and Hollywood screenwriters actually CAN do a better job of adapting a print author's story for the screen. Not everyone can, but I seriously doubt Tolkien would have done a particularly good job of writing a screenplay or teleplay.

And that's a reason not to adapt his work faithfully? I mean, I get the value of a screen adaptation written with artistry and professionalism, but I think there's a difference between that and one where the writers are putting their fingerprints all over the finished product, which is a lot of what I see happening.

 

[Ryujin]

And that's a reason not to adapt his work faithfully? I mean, I get the value of a screen adaptation written with artistry and professionalism, but I think there's a difference between that and one where the writers are putting their fingerprints all over the finished product, which is a lot of what I see happening.

At least they didn't turn it into a sarcastic comedy (cf. "Starship Troopers"). It's still a serious fantasy piece and has the general tone of a Tolkien story, if not slavishly following the letter of one. It's also pretty darned good. Sure, there are the odd bits that make you mutter WTF* but, taken as a whole, it's an enjoyable programme.

* I honestly can't think of many recent works that haven't made me do this, at least once.

 

[Hriston]

Theybare telling their own story, yes, but thematically it is Tolkienian and every element, thus far, is on point for the integrity of the show as an artistic unit.

But they're supposed to be telling Tolkien's story. I mean, the title of the show is "The Lord of the Rings".

I could see maybe one Season for the Hobbit, but that is still a stretch. One benefit of a drawn out version of the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, they could actually include all the songs. One of the most important elements of the books.

I'm imagining two seasons for The Hobbit, nine episodes apiece. I wouldn't want to see it drawn out any longer than that, and those might be half hour episodes rather than a full hour.

 

[Ryujin]

But they're supposed to be telling Tolkien's story. I mean, the title of the show is "The Lord of the Rings".


I'm imagining two seasons for The Hobbit, eight episodes apiece. I wouldn't want to see it drawn out any longer than that, and those might be half hour episodes rather than a full hour.

I'd be happy to just see the Topher Grace cut of the movies.

 

[Parmandur]

And that's a reason not to adapt his work faithfully? I mean, I get the value of a screen adaptation written with artistry and professionalism, but I think there's a difference between that and one where the writers are putting their fingerprints all over the finished product, which is a lot of what I see happening.

It's not an adaptation, and fidelity to chronology is of minor importance when Tolkien kept changing that sort of thing on his own. It's not set in stone. The creators making their own thing means it stands or falls on their own merit. In this case the merit is considerably great on it own terms.

But they're supposed to be telling Tolkien's story. I mean, the title of the show is "The Lord of the Rings".

No, the disclaimer in the credits make it clear this isn't Tolkien's story, it's the showrunners. Theybare inspired by Tolkien, and they are remarkably faithful to his themes and worldview, which took me by surprise because that is where Jackson failed compeltely.

I'm imagining two seasons for The Hobbit, nine episodes apiece. I wouldn't want to see it drawn out any longer than that, and those might be half hour episodes rather than a full hour.

Ooof, I do not think that would work if done with fastidious attention to canon details, at all, and would be a bad framework to get creative.

 

[Ibrandul]

It's not an adaptation, and fidelity to chronology is of minor importance when Tolkien kept changing that sort of thing on his own. It's not set in stone. The creators making their own thing means it stands or falls on their own merit. In this case the merit is considerably great on it own terms.

No, the disclaimer in the credits make it clear this isn't Tolkien's story, it's the showrunners. Theybare inspired by Tolkien, and they are remarkably faithful to his themes and worldview, which took me by surprise because that is where Jackson failed compeltely.

Ooof, I do not think that would work if done with fastidious attention to canon details, at all, and would be a bad framework to get creative.

I agree with all of this—except the word “completely”—and I believe JRRT would have as well. The “Tolkien Professor” has done a good job, I think, of reminding his listeners that JRRT himself, when giving notes on an adaptation far, far worse than this one, was more concerned with preserving the spirit of the work than with preserving details not essential to that spirit.

On the other hand, I feel the series we have been given is not always perfectly true to the spirit of the work. But neither was Jackson’s LotR, which is nonetheless a masterpiece of a kind. And both are very close to the spirit, I think, and diverge only occasionally. A good case can be made that RoP diverges (so far) less often.

 

[Parmandur]

I agree with all of this—except the word “completely”—and I believe JRRT would have as well. The “Tolkien Professor” has done a good job, I think, of reminding his listeners that JRRT himself, when giving notes on an adaptation far, far worse than this one, was more concerned with preserving the spirit of the work than with preserving details not essential to that spirit.

On the other hand, I feel the series we have been given is not always perfectly true to the spirit of the work. But neither was Jackson’s LotR, which is nonetheless a masterpiece of a kind. And both are very close to the spirit, I think, and diverge only occasionally. A good case can be made that RoP diverges (so far) less often.

Well, an exact match netween different artists is arguably impossible, even Christopher Tolkien had to make hard and questionable choices with the Silmirillion and he liberally dedicated his life to understanding the sport of his father's work.

However, I cannot think offhand of any major Tolkienian themes yhst the showrunners failed to touch on in this season, they didn't really have any non-Tolkienian themes (it's very interesting to listen to them talk about their original elements in the show, because they are always able to cite the existing hook in Tolkien they are working from), and all were executed with aplomb. I didn't come into this year thinking that Amazon would be putting out a major productin centered around the ethics and anthropology of Augustinian Platonism, but here we are, that's the world we live in now.

 

[Ibrandul]

Augustinian Platonism

I agree that RoP is more serious about Tolkienian themes than Jackson was (though Jackson's filmmaking is superior, at least so far). But I would argue, for example, that the gore and horror in episode 6 of RoP is sensationalistic in a way that I find contrary to Tolkien's spirit. It's most definitely contrary to the spirit of arguments explicitly made by both Plato (or the Platonic Socrates, at least) and Augustine (in the circus episode of the Confessions, for example). But I confess that I've become increasingly conservative in my dotage regarding horrifically violent filmed entertainment, so perhaps I'm projecting onto JRRT a spirit he didn't really embrace regarding that.

 

[Parmandur]

I agree that RoP is more serious about Tolkienian themes than Jackson was (though Jackson's filmmaking is superior, at least so far). But I would argue, for example, that the gore and horror in episode 6 of RoP is sensationalistic in a way that I find contrary to Tolkien's spirit. It's most definitely contrary to the spirit of arguments explicitly made by both Plato (or the Platonic Socrates, at least) and Augustine (in the circus episode of the Confessions, for example). But I confess that I've become increasingly conservative in my dotage regarding horrifically violent filmed entertainment, so perhaps I'm projecting onto JRRT a spirit he didn't really embrace regarding that.

I mean, even the Hobbit has a lot of over the top violence and horror, let alone Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion. No shade in saying you might have a selective memory here, I managed to forget the sex scenes in Game of Thrones after reading it: actually, I normally do, and that gets me in hot water with book recommendations on occasion.

 

[Argyle King]

Guy Fieri, as a Hobbit, with a cooking show covering the various meals popular in the Shire.