What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see?

Parmandur

Book-Friend
This seems like a matter of semantics. I don't know how you're using the word adaptation, but there's clearly an original text (LotR) to which the creators of the show purchased the rights for the purpose of making their product, which they entitled "The Lord of the Rings". Making alterations to that text necessary for use in a different medium is what makes it an adaptation, and use of that title means the show doesn't stand or fail on its own. Its success is buoyed by the recognition and reputation the title brings.

Also, I don't know why you're zeroing in on chronology. My comments to which you're replying were speaking generally about all kinds of changes (not just chronological) made in adaptations for TV and movies that seem like they were made to suit the whims of the writers and producers of the adaptations rather than to further the vision of the original author. I was told that Tolkien not being a skilled screenwriter himself is a good reason for an adaptation of his work to incorporate such changes, and I don't see it that way. There's an element of custodianship in adapting an author's work and a skill in realizing the author's vision in a new medium.
An adaption suggests usage of existing material. Rings of Power uses a base outline, and lampshades that most of it is original.
I haven't read the disclaimer. What does it say?
It says that the narrative is“inspired by, though not contained in, the original source material." I.e., not an adaptation per se. I think thr creators have been very upfront about what the show is.
Why not? The original story does just fine with those details. I was imagining a version that tells the same story that's in the book. What do you mean by "get creative"?
The Hobbit is a story that had been successfully adapted in 90 minutes (by Rankin Bass). I think that could be expanded to 3 hours to get all angles of the story in one film. More than three hours requires padding. The Hobbit's page count is mostly scenery description and running commentary from the Narrator: the plot is very short in fact. To stretch the story to 8, let alone 16 hours would require massive invention, which I donsee working as well as Rings of Power because the story isn't big enough to contain it (unlike the critical outline of the Second Age events). The Lord of the Rings, however, I think would work in Five Seasons, because it is a monstrously larger story.
I don't watch a lot of TV, so I don't know what trends have emerged in shows of that type, but after watching this show, I'm pretty sure I prefer mystery and ambiguity to come out of the events of the story being told instead of, as I believe was done in this show, from the writers using storytelling techniques to misdirect their audience.
Yeah, that's all pretty standard TV show stuff at this point, basically to be expected. Honestly a lot less of that here than normal.
 

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MarkB

Legend
I don't watch a lot of TV, so I don't know what trends have emerged in shows of that type, but after watching this show, I'm pretty sure I prefer mystery and ambiguity to come out of the events of the story being told instead of, as I believe was done in this show, from the writers using storytelling techniques to misdirect their audience.
I think the "take it too far" element is from shows like Lost, The X-Files or the revamped Battlestar Galactica, where mysterious happenings are thrown out at the audience along with the (either implied or outright stated) challenge for them to figure out the answer to the mystery - only for it to turn out, when answers start appearing seasons later, that the writers themselves either never bothered to figure out the answers to their own questions in the first place, or went ahead and changed them either because they wanted to take a different direction or because they'd forgotten the original questions they'd posed.

In Rings of Power, at least, they set up the ambiguities while themselves having a clear answer in mind, and they deliver that answer within the course of the same season.
 



Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
An adaption suggests usage of existing material. Rings of Power uses a base outline, and lampshades that most of it is original.
Yes, here is the existing material that was adapted from The Tale of Years:

1200​
Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. ... the smiths of Eregion are won over. ...​
c. 1500​
The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power.​
c. 1590​
The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.​

The introduction of original material into an adaptation (especially into the adaptation of that first sentence which encompasses the majority of the season) doesn't mean that existing source material hasn't been adapted. Season one of "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power" is an adaptation and a re-telling of this story, written by J.R.R. Tolkien, as it says on the tin.

It says that the narrative is“inspired by, though not contained in, the original source material." I.e., not an adaptation per se. I think thr creators have been very upfront about what the show is.
I've now had a look at the disclaimer. It flashes by so quickly in the end credits that it's not easy to get it to pause at just the right moment so that it can be read. I'd say that hardly puts it "up front". It also doesn't say what you've purported. Here's the full text:

This production contains dialogue, characters, and places that were inspired by, though not contained in, the original source material.​

So not the whole narrative, but certain individual lines of dialogue, characters like Nori and Adar, and places like Tirharad, were not present in the source material written by Tolkien but are the inventions of the writers of the show as distinct from certain lines of dialogue, characters like Galadriel, Elrond, and Sauron, and places like Lindon, Númenor, Eregion, Moria, and Mordor that are present in the source material that has been adapted which have also been used. That's what it says -- that not everything in the show is contained in the source material -- that there has been some invention which is part of the act of adaptation.

The Hobbit is a story that had been successfully adapted in 90 minutes (by Rankin Bass). I think that could be expanded to 3 hours to get all angles of the story in one film. More than three hours requires padding. The Hobbit's page count is mostly scenery description and running commentary from the Narrator: the plot is very short in fact. To stretch the story to 8, let alone 16 hours would require massive invention, which I donsee working as well as Rings of Power because the story isn't big enough to contain it (unlike the critical outline of the Second Age events). The Lord of the Rings, however, I think would work in Five Seasons, because it is a monstrously larger story.
The Rankin/Bass Hobbit is mostly beautifully done, but I think its pacing is entirely too fast for episodic television. It hits most of the major plot points but leaves out many details, including the entirety of Chapter 7: Queer Lodgings (where Bilbo and Company stay at the house of Beorn) and, more importantly, the events surrounding Bilbo's finding and delivering the Arkenstone to Bard. The show I'm imagining would include all of those omitted details, told at a leisurely pace with lots of room for attention to scenery and atmosphere. Elements such as the Battle of Greenfields and Gollum's childhood memories would be given full treatment. By page count alone, The Hobbit is around a quarter the length of the LotR, so I don't think two seasons is much of a stretch if LotR could be turned into five. (I'd argue for six.)

Yeah, that's all pretty standard TV show stuff at this point, basically to be expected. Honestly a lot less of that here than normal.
Well. I think it's an approach that results in a story where events occur that make no sense. I mean, why does Gandalf land in a crater that looks like the Eye of Sauron? That's just weird.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Someday, Tolkien's corpus will be out of copyright. Then things will get wild.
The copyright will expire, but they'll still hold the TM on a bunch of things which feel like they'll make some things awkward to navigate.
 

Here's the full text:

This production contains dialogue, characters, and places that were inspired by, though not contained in, the original source material.​

So not the whole narrative, but certain individual lines of dialogue, characters like Nori and Adar, and places like Tirharad, were not present in the source material written by Tolkien but are the inventions of the writers of the show as distinct from certain lines of dialogue, characters like Galadriel, Elrond, and Sauron, and places like Lindon, Númenor, Eregion, Moria, and Mordor that are present in the source material that has been adapted which have also been used. That's what it says -- that not everything in the show is contained in the source material -- that there has been some invention which is part of the act of adaptation.
Well when the source material is a paragraph followed by a timeline any dialogue is going to be an invention lol
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Well when the source material is a paragraph followed by a timeline any dialogue is going to be an invention lol
Not necessarily. In this case, the source material is the entirety of the LotR, from which some dialogue was cribbed such as when the Stranger says, "always follow you nose."
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
I think the "take it too far" element is from shows like Lost, The X-Files or the revamped Battlestar Galactica, where mysterious happenings are thrown out at the audience along with the (either implied or outright stated) challenge for them to figure out the answer to the mystery - only for it to turn out, when answers start appearing seasons later, that the writers themselves either never bothered to figure out the answers to their own questions in the first place, or went ahead and changed them either because they wanted to take a different direction or because they'd forgotten the original questions they'd posed.

In Rings of Power, at least, they set up the ambiguities while themselves having a clear answer in mind, and they deliver that answer within the course of the same season.
No answer was delivered as to why Gandalf landed in a crater that looked like the Eye of Sauron or why both Waldreg and the Dweller seemed to believe the fall of his meteorite was a sign of Sauron's return.
 

MarkB

Legend
No answer was delivered as to why Gandalf landed in a crater that looked like the Eye of Sauron or why both Waldreg and the Dweller seemed to believe the fall of his meteorite was a sign of Sauron's return.
Well, the second part is the whole "Gandalf Stormcrow" causation-reversal thing. Gandalf turning up doesn't cause Sauron to be on the move - he turns up because Sauron is on the move.
 

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