WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[Faolyn]

last I checked we got a bunch of Sourcebooks.

Unfortunately, a lot of the page count is eaten up by adventures.

 

[Faolyn]

Keep in mind that as of Domains of Dread, several Darklords were pulled from every TSR setting in print. Vecna, Kas and Azalin were all from Greyhawk. Tristan, Easan and Hazlik were from Forgotten Realms, Tsien Chiang from Kara-Tur, Vlad Drakov from Taladas, Thakok-An from Dark Sun, Meredoth from Mystara, Boyar Gregor Zolnik from Birthright, and Lord Soth from Dragonlance. (And it's been a minute, I might have missed one). So while the PCs might have become more local, many of the lords themselves were from all over the Multiverse.

Malingno and Guiseppe came from Gothic Earth's Italy, although Masque of the Red Death is a Ravenloft spin-off so I don't know if that counts.

 

[Scribe]

Precisely because it is the 21st century, you can get a lot of incorrect information if you don’t actually read it.

This is really really true. I cannot count the number of books (source, rule, novels) that have been 'discussed' that I've had to go out and buy to confirm that what was stated on some youtube video was plainly incorrect.

 

[Faolyn]

I wonder if Planescape would work as a two-book set with a robust Manual of Planes in one book and Sigil and the philosphers with clubs in the other.

Is the Planescapeness of it all separable from the planar setting information? I think it probably is, for a lot of fans.

I personally think this is the best way to go.

A Manual of the Planes that both expands upon the Wheel and includes other types of cosmoses in them, and (hopefully) includes examples of making your own. At the very least, a way to make demiplanes. Plus planar monsters, magic, archetypes, and races.

Sigil as its own thing, potentially also with the Gate Towns--my own opinion is that the Gate Towns are Sigil's suburbs and should be easier to get to from Sigil than any other plane. Fill this book with the philosophy, and with it, the rules needed (if any) to actually affect change in the planes. Include interesting PCs instead of monsters and races (let's face it, dabus don't really need stats; you could just use Commoner stats and let them float a bit and talk in rebuses).

 

[Faolyn]

There are a few problematic areas with planescape. One is that it not only relies on alignment, but relies alignment as a metaphysical concept, though not without individual choice. This sort of doubles down on concepts of inherent good or inherent evil they've been trying to get away from. Second, the original setting was intent on placing gods from real world religions into the great wheel in sometimes cavalier ways (growing up hindu, this is something that I noticed and that bothered me).

They should definitely dump the real-world gods. Even the really old ones like the Sumerian gods. What I would do is make up a new pantheon or two and use them to fill up the book space that opened up when the real gods get removed.

But I think that Planescape would be an amazing place to show that good and evil don't have to be inherent. Imagine an "underground railroad" for fiends who have renounced evil (since archfiends probably would call for the capture and execution of any such traitors), or celestials who have gone to the dark side (or who chose hedonism over smiting evil). The setting already had rogue modrons as a race option and there's room for organized slaadi. The third layer of Arcadia slipped over the Mechanus, but that was treated as a background event--a new Planescape could have similar losses as being an active threat or even just a natural event, with creatures trying to go against nature by stabilizing the planes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I personally think this is the best way to go.

A Manual of the Planes that both expands upon the Wheel and includes other types of cosmoses in them, and (hopefully) includes examples of making your own. At the very least, a way to make demiplanes. Plus planar monsters, magic, archetypes, and races.

Sigil as its own thing, potentially also with the Gate Towns--my own opinion is that the Gate Towns are Sigil's suburbs and should be easier to get to from Sigil than any other plane. Fill this book with the philosophy, and with it, the rules needed (if any) to actually affect change in the planes. Include interesting PCs instead of monsters and races (let's face it, dabus don't really need stats; you could just use Commoner stats and let them float a bit and talk in rebuses).

But they won't have room for their space-taking adventure if they do that!

In all seriousness, that sounds awesome, but they're just not going to cut out the adventure, much to my chagrin.

 

[Scribe]

But they won't have room for their space-taking adventure if they do that!

In all seriousness, that sounds awesome, but they're just not going to cut out the adventure, much to my chagrin.

I dont know, I quite like the Spelljammer format.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I dont know, I quite like the Spelljammer format.

To my mind, it keeps them from providing more rules and setting detail, and all the extra cardboard adds zero value to me. $70 MSRP is far too high a price to pay.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

They should definitely dump the real-world gods. Even the really old ones like the Sumerian gods. What I would do is make up a new pantheon or two and use them to fill up the book space that opened up when the real gods get removed.

On the one hand, I get where that sentiment comes from, but on the other, some of the planes and major planar realms/features are pretty heavily influenced by, for example, Greco-Roman and Norse mythology. Yggdrasil the World Ash, all of Ysgard, Niflheim and Pluton in the Gray Waste, Elysium, and so on.

I think steering away from deities drawn directly from religions that are still actively practiced IRL (Hinduism, in particular, comes to mind) is probably a good idea, but I think those belonging to religions haven't been actively practiced for centuries can still be useful to draw upon. I do seem to recall hearing that "Neo-Helenism" was/is a thing, but practically speaking the ancient Greco-Roman religions were functionally dead for long enough that I feel they're probably fair game - especially if they go to the effort to treat them with more care and nuance than previous iterations of the planes may have.

The two most recent God of War games (2018 and Ragnarok) are pretty much my go-to examples of what a plane-hopping game can look like.

 

[Aldarc]

One of my partner's favorite gifts I got her was a four disc album full of Bob Dylan covers. For her it was the best of both worlds; songs written by Bob Dylan and sung by literally anybody except Bob Dylan.

I've been thinking about that a lot in relation to Monte Cook...

I like Numenera, but I'm not really a fan of Monte Cook's prosaic writing style and some of his design choices, particularly with Invisible Sun. He tends to favor a lot of style over substance, especially when he names things in his games.