Microtransactions, MMOs, and Play Loops.

Scribe

Legend
As per the fireside chat today, there is a goal within Hasbro to further monetize D&D, one avenue being discussed here on EnWorld being microtransactions and the impact this has or has not had on MMOs.

I dont know that its on topic to the original discussion but my view on this would be.

WoW functioned best, under a feedback loop of having to 'put in the work', the work being playing the game, to achieve the goal of having the best stuff, that added an element of prestige within the game, that you had either done the work, or had been lucky, or had a level of dedication/skill, higher than your peers.

The addition of microtransactions shorts that feedback loop, by simply allowing one to swipe the card of their choice, and buy the 'prestige' or avoid the gameplay loop all together.

Examples include.

Paying to skip content - no need to level up your character.
Paying for cosmetics - no need to play through and earn it within the game, you just buy it.
Paying for character changes or services - decrease in attachment to the character, or degrades the community by having people just transfer.
Paying for mounts - Mounts in WoW used to be quite rare, in how you went about earning them. It was something unique that people had to either work for (Gladiators, Achievements) or get randomly via Boss Drops, or World Drops.

This 'everyone gets a prize, if you pay' decreases the motivation of going out and earning it, or in other words, decreases the motivation to PLAY THE GAME, because the gameplay loop was

Grind to Max -> Farm to Raid -> Raid for Loot.

Microtransactions allow you to skip all of that.

In a nutshell @Whizbang Dustyboots
 

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MarkB

Legend
Is this being proposed in the context of organised play (Adventurers' League etc.)? That's the only context in which I could see the MMO analogy holding up. It's not like you could buy a character level booster or magic items lootbox that would have any effect in a home game.
 

Scribe

Legend
Is this being proposed in the context of organised play (Adventurers' League etc.)? That's the only context in which I could see the MMO analogy holding up. It's not like you could buy a character level booster or magic items lootbox that would have any effect in a home game.

Thats why I brought it out of that thread. I'm not sure the model for MMO's works at all or even can work for D&D, at least not D&D as it is today.
 



Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
As per the fireside chat today, there is a goal within Hasbro to further monetize D&D, one avenue being discussed here on EnWorld being microtransactions and the impact this has or has not had on MMOs.

I dont know that its on topic to the original discussion but my view on this would be.

WoW functioned best, under a feedback loop of having to 'put in the work', the work being playing the game, to achieve the goal of having the best stuff, that added an element of prestige within the game, that you had either done the work, or had been lucky, or had a level of dedication/skill, higher than your peers.
Context for my comments: I have been playing WoW since vanilla alpha. I have been a guild leader since day one of retail. Except for breaks during Cataclysm and Shadowlands (caused by raiding alliance drama in both cases), I have been a raider since vanilla and have been a regular non-ranked PvPer (although with the solo queue for arenas, I hope to finally grind out a few vicious saddles in Dragonflight, especially as my raiding alliance seems to have permanently dissolved at last).
The addition of microtransactions shorts that feedback loop, by simply allowing one to swipe the card of their choice, and buy the 'prestige' or avoid the gameplay loop all together.

Examples include.

Paying to skip content - no need to level up your character.
Paying for cosmetics - no need to play through and earn it within the game, you just buy it.
Paying for character changes or services - decrease in attachment to the character, or degrades the community by having people just transfer.
Paying for mounts - Mounts in WoW used to be quite rare, in how you went about earning them. It was something unique that people had to either work for (Gladiators, Achievements) or get randomly via Boss Drops, or World Drops.
With the exception of the leveling issue, I categorically disagree.

None of the things WoW has for sale are things you can earn in-game. Riding around on a sparkle pony tells everyone you bought it from the store. No one looks at it and wonders what long questline you completed, what meta-achievement you painstakingly assembled or how many Alliance cloth-wearers you stunlocked to get it.

There isn't any inherent prestige for using the in-game store. In fact, there are wry chuckles about some of it, in the "holy (moley), you paid for that" fashion.

There are hundreds of mounts in the game. There are thousands of pets. There are who knows how many transmoggable items.

There hasn't been prestige in scarcity for a long time. And I say that as someone who rocked the Herald of the Titans title in WotLK while riding on my Blizzcon polar bear mount.

And honestly, I have a hard time seeing "people fail to be impressed with my gladiator drake because they have a flying cat they bought from the store" to be meaningful damage to the game.

Outside of rated PvP mounts, I have almost all of the prestigious crap in the game. No one sends me admiring whispers when I bring it out and I don't send admiring whispers to other people when they've got stuff I don't have.


There are two possible exceptions to this:

1) For several expansions now, Blizzard has sold the ability to level up one character to the new expansion's starting level as part of the expansion purchase, to avoid EverQuest's mistake of making players slog through all of the expansions (they're up to 17 now, I think) in order to be able to catch up to and be competitive with their friends.

This does take away people grinding their way through multiple expansions, some of them extremely dated, in order to reach where everyone else is. If grinding through levels is somehow virtuous, this chips away at that.

I would argue that there's nothing virtuous about grinding and that Blizzard's very mercenary decision -- lower the barriers to entry and let people jump (back) in and play easily -- is all good.

2) Retail formerly, and apparently Classic currently, had a big problem with gold farmers, who would monopolize any areas perceived to be lucrative places to make money and then would sell it to players in return for their credit card numbers.

Leaving aside the apparent not-rare incidents of credit card hanky panky that's happened with this, the gold farmers really hurt the game for all players, from something as innocuous as leaving their corpses all over Stormwind, spelling out the URLs of gold sites, to making it that no one could quest in portions of the Plaguelands during vanilla because there were 24/7 gold farming groups there killing every spawn instantly.

When my wife wants to farm transmogs in old dungeons or raids (it's a large part of what brings her back to the game each expansion), there's now a cap on how many instances she can go into in an hour, which Blizzard put in place specifically to slow the gold farmers down.

So when Blizzard started selling in-game items -- first a now-removed pet, and later the game time token -- for in-game gold/real world dollars, depending on which world you bought it, it meant that Blizzard was now enabling whales to drop their credit cards down and purchase effectively unlimited gold with real world dollars. (Since the value of the tokens fluctuates with how many are purchased, eventually, it would get prohibitively expensive to buy gold this way, but as I am not a whale, I don't know how fast the value changes.)

Now, a large amount of people were doing this anyway, illegally, so we can't know for sure how much of an impact this is having on the game. (I'm guessing someone at Blizzard has a spreadsheet that tracks this stuff and has a rough idea, but I doubt the public will ever get that data.)

Using that gold, they could buy whatever good gear other players have made available for trade or the Auction House. But there's a limit to how much is out there -- there's nothing at this point in Dragonflight that I could buy with real world dollars that would make me as well-geared as someone just running dungeons would be -- and while it can move the needle, it's not game-changing. The most expensive stuff on the Auction House is cosmetic, typically rare mounts and pets that other players have farmed. Being able to ride on a rocket for a mount is fun, but it's not PTW.

Now, there are people who argue that the artists and animators working on the store cosmetics are doing that instead of working on items that would be available inside the game, which may be true, but we don't know how much cosmetics are bringing in, and if they offset the cost of hiring additional animators and graphics folks, or if Blizzard has done so. That's a potential minor harm to players (I don't know how much damage one store mount per quarter does to overall productivity), but it's not one we're ever likely to know real numbers on.
 
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Scribe

Legend
None of the things WoW has for sale are things you can earn in-game. Riding around on a sparkle pony tells everyone you bought it from the store. No one looks at it and wonders what long questline you completed, what meta-achievement you painstakingly assembled or how many Alliance cloth-wearers you stunlocked to get it.

There isn't any inherent prestige for using the in-game store. In fact, there are wry chuckles about some of it, in the "holy (moley), you paid for that" fashion.

I think the issue here is the concept that...they shouldnt be sold at all. Put that content into the game and let it be earned via play.

2) Retail formerly, and apparently Classic currently, had a big problem with gold farmers, who would monopolize any areas perceived to be lucrative places to make money and then would sell it to players in return for their credit card numbers.

This is true for sure, and in combination with GDKP runs in Classic (I quit end of TBC this time around) essentially removed the game play loop of getting into a raiding guild.

Now, there are people who argue that the artists and animators working on the store cosmetics are doing that instead of working on items that would be available inside the game, which may be true, but we don't know how much cosmetics are bringing in, and if they offset the cost of hiring additional animators and graphics folks, or if Blizzard has done so. That's a potential minor harm to players (I don't know how much damage one store mount per quarter does to overall productivity), but it's not one we're ever likely to know real numbers on.

This I think is probably it. So I do believe, all told, there is an impact, and I dont think its positive. :)
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I think the issue here is the concept that...they shouldnt be sold at all. Put that content into the game and let it be earned via play.
I get what you're saying -- I am a fairly hard-nosed DM in this manner -- but I don't know that being philosophically opposed to the store (which is not an uncommon position) constitutes real damage to the game.
This is true for sure, and in combination with GDKP runs in Classic (I quit end of TBC this time around) essentially removed the game play loop of getting into a raiding guild.
Well, having been a raider for most of WoW, I think the gameplay loop of raiding is that raiding is (mostly) fun. (I mean, it's not fun wiping on the end of expansion boss 100 times.)

I don't think raiding was meant as a money maker and it's not for most raiders. But yes, selling the token impacts on that. (On the other hand, someone with a nice GKDP cash flow going can, with tokens, play without ever spending real world money.)
This I think is probably it. So I do believe, all told, there is an impact, and I dont think its positive. :)
I am not a professional artist or animator. I'd want to hear from them how many man hours are involved in the fanciest of the mounts in WoW's store before deciding it's serious damage.
 

Scribe

Legend
I am not a professional artist or animator. I'd want to hear from them how many man hours are involved in the fanciest of the mounts in WoW's store before deciding it's serious damage.

I'm not saying its 'serious' damage, even if I DO believe it lead to a decline in the game. I would have to go looking, but I want to say that I saw in some Blizzard financial reporting's that microtransactions, made more than subs.

Personally, I dont think that is healthy, as it (if true) would mean that they can prioritize stuff outside of the gameplay loop, and turn better profits.

In that scenario, its not about the gameplay, its not about quests, and its not about raids. Its about selling a new thing to dress up with and ride around town.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I'm not saying its 'serious' damage, even if I DO believe it lead to a decline in the game. I would have to go looking, but I want to say that I saw in some Blizzard financial reporting's that microtransactions, made more than subs.
Wow, if that's true -- and it doesn't include Hearthstone and Diablo Immortal -- that's shocking. I don't know what those microtransactions would even be. Other than the item that lets people look like raid bosses, which seems to get dropped constantly in raids, I don't know that I see that many shop items in-game.
In that scenario, its not about the gameplay, its not about quests, and its not about raids. Its about selling a new thing to dress up with and ride around town.
World of Warcraft has hundreds of people working on it. Even the most elaborate in-game stuff only has a small handful of people and they don't even put out one item a month. The manhours can't be that big of a piece of the pie.
 

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