WotC Hasbro Bets Big on D&D

During today's 'Hasbro Fireside Chat', Hasbro's Chris Cocks, chief executive officer, and Cynthia Williams, president of Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming mentioned D&D, and about betting big on its name. This was in addition to the Magic: The Gathering discussion they held on the same call.

The following are rough notes on what they said.

D&D Beyond

• Leaning heavily on D&D Beyond
• 13 million registered users
• Give them more ways to express their fandom
• Hired 350 people last year
• Low attrition

What’s next for D&D

• Never been more popular
• Brand under-monetized
• Excited about D&D Beyond possibilities
• Empower accessibility and development of the user base.
• Data driven insight
• Window into how players are playing
• Companion app on their phone
• Start future monetization starting with D&D Beyond
• DMs are 20% of the audience but lions share of purchases
• Digital game recurrent spending for post sale revenue.
• Speed of digital can expand, yearly book model to include current digital style models.
• Reach highly engaged multigenerational fans.
• Dungeons and Dragons has recognition, 10 out of 10
• Cultural phenomenon right now.
• DND strategy is a broad four quadrant strategy
• Like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Marvel
• New books and accessories, licensed game stuff, and D&D Beyond
• Huge hopes for D&D

What is success for the D&D Movie

• First big light up oppourtunity for 4th quadrant
• Significant marketing
• They think it’ll have significant box office
• It has second most viewed trailer at Paramount, only eclipsed by Transformers
• Will be licensed video games, some on movies
• Then follow up other media, TV, other movies, etc.
• Bullish on D&D.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The movie is just a first step towards a broader D&D cinematic universe that will include many D&D settings, it's just that as the most famous and popular setting, the Forgotten Realms goes first, it's where the DDU starts, but I'd be surprised if Eberron, Ravenloft, Planescape, Spelljammer, etc... don't get their time in the sun.

Maybe, but it's a long way to go from introducing a core group of characters and setting (you can't put Neverwinter on a lunch box, at least, not as the star of a lunch box) to the wider multiverse.

Look how DC Comics, which has freaking Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman to anchor their cast, has stuggled to explain their version of the multiverse to the audience. If Flash isn't a huge hit -- and honestly, Ezra Miller may commit a felony that the public won't forgive before the film finally gets into theaters -- they're back to square one, which I think James Gunn is already anticipating.

Now, it's probably possible that the characters from Honor Among Thieves might fly in a spelljamming ship one day or briefly visit one or more planes on their adventures, but detours into Eberron and Ravenloft would be a lot more work and would probably be a better choice for later D&D shows -- once the first one makes it out and is a hit.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Such a thing could happen but we've also sadly seen, that when some finds a rumor that supports their fears (and also proves them right), they latch onto it hard.

A 43-page thread can't be wrong!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I wish I could be as optimistic as some people here.

But monetisation above all else is something I've watched destroy many great video game franchises over the years. It's hard to imagine a different result here when the language used to justify it is completely identical.

The worst part is once they've bled a brand dry and destroyed it, they discard the husk and move onto the next franchise.

Hasbro isn't a vulture capital firm. They would no more burn D&D to the ground than they'd put out an X-rated Pokemon card set for the sake of short-term sales.

They might make some missteps, but company leadership -- the board of directors, if need be -- will come down and slap anyone senseless who threatens the core brands.

If you don't think there are some hard conversations going on in the MTG team right now, you're kidding yourselves.

This is not a hobby to Hasbro execs -- it's their career. Destroying the value of MTG or D&D is a career-killer and they've got mortgages and other expensive personal investments riding on that here. They would not get off Scott free if they ruin a brand like this, because no one will want them anywhere near their brands afterward. And they all know it.

 

[Thunder Brother]

In terms of hypothetical 3P usage of the 3DVTT, I think Skyrim modding scene might be an optimistic parallel. Bethesda allows mods through the Creation Kit, but for the most part takes a mosly positive stance on mods, when they're not occasionally screwing with the modding community.

Anyway, I have a hard time imagining any official integration of 3P material on Beyond. One, because it hasn't happened yet (except for a smattering of Critical Role stuff). And two, because integrating this material into a 3DVTT might be financially out of reach for many of these small publishers. I imagine small time publishers are already running tight budgets just for book art, I can't image what the fiscals look like once you throw in 3D models, effects, and whatever else is necessary.

Some posters here have talked about Beyond integrating dmsguild material, but unless I've missed some news or rumors out of WotC, that kind of talk just seems to be purely wishful thinking.

 

[mamba]

This itself is kind of crazy to me. So if you buy all those books on fantasy grounds you're sort of stuck on that platform? And what if wotc says they only want to sell through dnd beyond?

then you won't buy the new modules on FG You can still play your old ones there, assuming the FG license is not being revoked...

Not sure why this is crazy, the format for each VTT is different, so a module on one VTT is a different product from the same module on a different VTT. Just like if you buy a hardcover book you do not also get a copy of the paperback version (or if you buy the D&D adventure with the deluxe cover you do not also get the one with the regular cover...)

 

[Malmuria]

then you won't buy the new modules on FG You can still play your old ones there, assuming the FG license is not being revoked...

Not sure why this is crazy, the format for each VTT is different, so a module on one VTT is a different product from the same module on a different VTT. Just like if you buy a hardcover book you do not also get a copy of the paperback version (or if you buy the D&D adventure with the deluxe cover you do not also get the one with the regular cover...)

That they would charge separately is not surprising to me at all; each is its own product as you mention. What's surprising to me is that people would commit so much money to one platform, given the potential risks (including just want to switch to a different vtt).

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Hasbro isn't a vulture capital firm. They would no more burn D&D to the ground than they'd put out an X-rated Pokemon card set for the sake of short-term sales.

They might make some missteps, but company leadership -- the board of directors, if need be -- will come down and slap anyone senseless who threatens the core brands.

If you don't think there are some hard conversations going on in the MTG team right now, you're kidding yourselves.

This is not a hobby to Hasbro execs -- it's their career. Destroying the value of MTG or D&D is a career-killer and they've got mortgages and other expensive personal investments riding on that here. They would not get off Scott free if they ruin a brand like this, because no one will want them anywhere near their brands afterward. And they all know it.

Bawhahaha, because modern Executives are such great long term thinkers who put company and brand over short term self interest/s

Executives burn brands and companies all the time for a short term surge of profits because they know they will have moved on before any meaningful fall out with a nice golden parachute.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Bawhahaha, because modern Executives are such great long term thinkers who put company and brand over short term self interest/s

Executives burn brands and companies all the time for a short term surge of profits because they know they will have moved on before any meaningful fall out with a nice golden parachute.

Do you personally know anybody who works at the level I'm talking about? I do.

Let me tell you, three properties with five mortgages between them, three kids each going to $50k/year private school so they can go to a college that's much more expensive, a sailboat/airplane/other expensive money-pit of a toy, twice-yearly international vacations and probably at least one ex-marriage requiring alimony and child support buys a LOT of playing it safe.

Ruining a brand of something minor like Sewer Sharks? Sure. It's a value with limited remaining value and can be discarded and no one will care.

Screwing up Pokemon, Magic: The Gathering or D&D?

They literally cannot afford it.

Success at that level is a set of golden handcuffs and until they're ready to cash out (and they cash out later and later all the time, because those monthly expenses keep piling up -- very few "wealthy" people live as frugally as Sam Walton allegedly did), they cannot afford to not be able to land another job after their current one ends.

Take David Zaslav, hated by nerds for what he's doing to DC, Cartoon Network, etc. He's not destroying stuff because he hates fun (although it's likely he does hate fun, too), but because he needs Discovery/Warner Brothers to survive at all costs. If that means burning a Batgirl movie with a cast of mostly fresh faces and a few cameos by older actors, he'll do it. If it means taking Infinity Train off of streaming, he'll do it.

He is not going for the cheap quick hits, because "the guy who bankrupted HBO" means he won't ever be able to pay the mortgages on his five or six mansions and his kids will have to leave Stanford and Princeton mid-year and he won't get cut any breaks on the alimony.

These are not irrational monsters, as much as people want them to be. They're rational monsters, which means their potential damage is much more targeted and strategic.

A good clip from Silicon Valley that explains this. Warning, there are few f-bombs.

 

[Thunder Brother]

Screwing up Pokemon, Magic: The Gathering or D&D?

If Pokemon is any indication, you can pump out a clearly inferior product and still rake in millions! Brand loyalty is one helluva drug.

 

[payn]

If Pokemon is any indication, you can pump out a clearly inferior product and still rake in millions! Brand loyalty is one helluva drug.