WotC Hasbro Bets Big on D&D

During today's 'Hasbro Fireside Chat', Hasbro's Chris Cocks, chief executive officer, and Cynthia Williams, president of Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming mentioned D&D, and about betting big on its name. This was in addition to the Magic: The Gathering discussion they held on the same call.

The following are rough notes on what they said.

D&D Beyond

• Leaning heavily on D&D Beyond
• 13 million registered users
• Give them more ways to express their fandom
• Hired 350 people last year
• Low attrition

What’s next for D&D

• Never been more popular
• Brand under-monetized
• Excited about D&D Beyond possibilities
• Empower accessibility and development of the user base.
• Data driven insight
• Window into how players are playing
• Companion app on their phone
• Start future monetization starting with D&D Beyond
• DMs are 20% of the audience but lions share of purchases
• Digital game recurrent spending for post sale revenue.
• Speed of digital can expand, yearly book model to include current digital style models.
• Reach highly engaged multigenerational fans.
• Dungeons and Dragons has recognition, 10 out of 10
• Cultural phenomenon right now.
• DND strategy is a broad four quadrant strategy
• Like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Marvel
• New books and accessories, licensed game stuff, and D&D Beyond
• Huge hopes for D&D

What is success for the D&D Movie

• First big light up oppourtunity for 4th quadrant
• Significant marketing
• They think it’ll have significant box office
• It has second most viewed trailer at Paramount, only eclipsed by Transformers
• Will be licensed video games, some on movies
• Then follow up other media, TV, other movies, etc.
• Bullish on D&D.

 

[Oofta]

Oh I get that. My point was that it has been standard that things that work on one VTT never work on another - other than base image files I suppose. If you go through the whole process of doing lighting and line of sight stuff for one VTT, that's can't be exported to another vtt. So, it's not like WotC making their VTT stuff not portable to other VTT's is anything different.

Again, I can't play my PS5 games on my Xbox, even if it's the same title. That's the point I was responding to. The idea that it's somehow strange that if you purchase Xanathar's on Fantasy Grounds, it's not accessible through Roll20 or DDB.

While it would be great if they did something like you are talking about - making stuff available on different platforms I imagine there would be some pretty serious technical issues involved. Unlike movies which will play on anything (excepting region locking) and a streamed movie on any platform is still just an mpeg file, every VTT uses a different set up that isn't compatible.

I suspect that if WOTC declares an open standard, most companies will figure out a way to support it. It's frequently how standards are made.

If they go that direction of course. I think it would make sense because it seems like it would be the best way for them to maximize profits in this area. But who knows what they're they have planned, so far all we have is vague promises and vaporware.

 

[Dire Bare]

Oh I get that. My point was that it has been standard that things that work on one VTT never work on another - other than base image files I suppose. If you go through the whole process of doing lighting and line of sight stuff for one VTT, that's can't be exported to another vtt. So, it's not like WotC making their VTT stuff not portable to other VTT's is anything different.

Again, I can't play my PS5 games on my Xbox, even if it's the same title. That's the point I was responding to. The idea that it's somehow strange that if you purchase Xanathar's on Fantasy Grounds, it's not accessible through Roll20 or DDB.

While it would be great if they did something like you are talking about - making stuff available on different platforms I imagine there would be some pretty serious technical issues involved. Unlike movies which will play on anything (excepting region locking) and a streamed movie on any platform is still just an mpeg file, every VTT uses a different set up that isn't compatible.

But image files are just the base. There's all sorts of stuff that goes with that image file that isn't portable between platforms. Line of Sight and Fog of War - especially for terrain - does not translate between platforms.

Yes, things aren't super portable now except for perhaps maps and tokens (jpeg files). I'm dreaming. It's very possible and doable, it would just require the industry to cooperate and work together. WotC, being the industry leader with the deepest pockets, would have to lead the initiative. Other industries have done it, the RPG industry could do so as well.

Would they? I think it would be to their benefit to do so, but . . . .

 

[Umbran]

However it was extremely successful, and this caused a massive strategy change at Rockstar Games, where they pivoted from making any more single-player content (despite apparently being far enough along in production to be recording voice actors) to purely making content directed that that GTAO audience, who were spending insane amounts on microtransactions.

Huh. Someone actually understood the Sunk Cost Fallacy? That's refreshing.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Huh. Someone actually understood the Sunk Cost Fallacy? That's refreshing.

Yup. Smart businesses are willing to pivot. There is a certain cost in customer goodwill, but the reality is that Rockstar puts out games so rarely and they're so well-reviewed that the lost goodwill in the short-term translates more to snarky comments than actual lost sales, and frankly, the amount people were spending on GTAO was absolutely bonkers. There wasn't even anything good to buy initially, and hackers often gave a ton of free money (which in the first year or two, pretty much never got taken back by Rockstar), but desperate youths armed with credit cards were willing to pay anyway.

I mean, the pivot resulted in this:

GTA V is the most profitable entertainment product of all time

The above is probably the least surprising headline you'll read on GamesIndustry.biz all year.The success of Grand Thef…

www.gamesindustry.biz

And that's from 2018 - it's still making a lot of money.

How Much Money GTA Online Makes Per Minute, According To Data

Some of GTA Online's money math is surprising.

screenrant.com

$911m in 12 months (in 2020-2021) from Online alone. Indeed, I think at this point the majority of money GTAV has made is from Online.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yup. Smart businesses are willing to pivot. There is a certain cost in customer goodwill, but the reality is that Rockstar puts out games so rarely and they're so well-reviewed that the lost goodwill in the short-term translates more to snarky comments than actual lost sales, and frankly, the amount people were spending on GTAO was absolutely bonkers. There wasn't even anything good to buy initially, and hackers often gave a ton of free money (which in the first year or two, pretty much never got taken back by Rockstar), but desperate youths armed with credit cards were willing to pay anyway.

I mean, the pivot resulted in this:

GTA V is the most profitable entertainment product of all time

The above is probably the least surprising headline you'll read on GamesIndustry.biz all year.The success of Grand Thef…

www.gamesindustry.biz

And that's from 2018 - it's still making a lot of money.

How Much Money GTA Online Makes Per Minute, According To Data

Some of GTA Online's money math is surprising.

screenrant.com

$911m in 12 months (in 2020-2021) from Online alone. Indeed, I think at this point the majority of money GTAV has made is from Online.

And it's what a decade old? I played it recovering from injury 2014.

 

[Jaeger]

We don't know what "undermonetized" means, other than D&D in general. All assumptions, on  both sides, are speculative.

In my opinion; The repeated referencing of the single "under monetized" quote is a red herring - distracting from what the real discussion should be about.

The real talking point is when she goes on to say the following* after referencing the buyout of D&DBeyond:

Miss Williams At 34:08 in: Hasbro, Inc. Webinar

"...digital will allow us options to create rewarding experiences post-sale that helps us unlock the type of recurrent spending you see in digital games, where more than 70% of revenue in digital games comes post-sale. The speed of digital means that we are able to expand from what is essentially a yearly book publishing model, to a reoccurring spending environment, and we're offering content that we know fans want."

Then put it in the context of the upcoming OneVTT, and the two recent hires that are in charge of all things digital and D&D: Winnager's replacement, Kyle Brink's whole working life is essentially digital gaming. Tim Fields, WotC's Senior Vice President and General Manager of Digital Gaming. Is of a similar background. With an emphasis on mobile games.

So taken as a whole, when Miss Williams says that taking D&D (The RPG itself) digital will help them to:

"...unlock the type of recurrent spending you see in digital games, where more than 70% of revenue in digital games comes post-sale."...

"...The speed of digital means that we are able to expand from what is essentially a yearly book publishing model, to a reoccurring spending environment, ..."

What exactly do people think that she is referring to?

*Credit where credit is due; Her corporate-speak game is absolutely on point.

 

[Zardnaar]

In my opinion; The repeated referencing of the single "under monetized" quote is a red herring - distracting from what the real discussion should be about.

The real talking point is when she goes on to say the following* after referencing the buyout of D&DBeyond:

Miss Williams At 34:08 in: Hasbro, Inc. Webinar


Then put it in the context of the upcoming OneVTT, and the two recent hires that are in charge of all things digital and D&D: Winnager's replacement, Kyle Brink's whole working life is essentially digital gaming. Tim Fields, WotC's Senior Vice President and General Manager of Digital Gaming. Is of a similar background. With an emphasis on mobile games.

So taken as a whole, when Miss Williams says that taking D&D (The RPG itself) digital will help them to:

"...unlock the type of recurrent spending you see in digital games, where more than 70% of revenue in digital games comes post-sale."...

"...The speed of digital means that we are able to expand from what is essentially a yearly book publishing model, to a reoccurring spending environment, ..."

What exactly do people think that she is referring to?

*Credit where credit is due; Her corporate-speak game is absolutely on point.

That's the red flag though. Monetization and post release. Translation microtransactions

 

[Hussar]

That's the red flag though. Monetization and post release. Translation microtransactions

Uhh, no?

Post release in no way actually automatically means microtransactions.

And, again, what do micro transactions actually mean in terms of an RPG? I get the idea for a video game. Buy skins, etc. Fair enough. But, in terms of an RPG, which, I'd point out has had "micro transactions" as in the sense of cheap, small things you can add to the game, for nearly fifty years, what do "micro transactions" actually mean?

In a VTT, you're going to see things like terrain, models, etc for sale. Which is EXACTLY what you have right now with every single VTT on the market. Do people not actually look at VTT's first to see how they work? If you go on Fantasy Grounds, or Roll20, or DDB (not a VTT, but VTT adjacent), there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of things you can buy for D&D all priced at about 5 bucks or less. You want tokens? There's a hundred different token packs. You want short modules? There's a thousand of those. You want new classes, races, magic items, you name it? Poof, already available. You want dice skins? Yup, you can buy those.

The only difference I'm really seeing here is that WotC is going to start selling that sort of stuff on their own VTT. It's no different than what the VTT market looks like and has looked like for twenty years.

 

[Zardnaar]

Uhh, no?

Post release in no way actually automatically means microtransactions.

And, again, what do micro transactions actually mean in terms of an RPG? I get the idea for a video game. Buy skins, etc. Fair enough. But, in terms of an RPG, which, I'd point out has had "micro transactions" as in the sense of cheap, small things you can add to the game, for nearly fifty years, what do "micro transactions" actually mean?

In a VTT, you're going to see things like terrain, models, etc for sale. Which is EXACTLY what you have right now with every single VTT on the market. Do people not actually look at VTT's first to see how they work? If you go on Fantasy Grounds, or Roll20, or DDB (not a VTT, but VTT adjacent), there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of things you can buy for D&D all priced at about 5 bucks or less. You want tokens? There's a hundred different token packs. You want short modules? There's a thousand of those. You want new classes, races, magic items, you name it? Poof, already available. You want dice skins? Yup, you can buy those.

The only difference I'm really seeing here is that WotC is going to start selling that sort of stuff on their own VTT. It's no different than what the VTT market looks like and has looked like for twenty years.

I'm saying I understand the fear not if it's justified or rational and we will have to wait and see.

I don't play D&D online care factor 0 one way or another but I'm not nitpicking or arguing over someone's objective feelings.

Perception is reality in this situation and no one knows enough to conclusively be right one way or another.

Chocolate, vanilla!!! Who cares go sit in the corner.

The meeting was just hype for the investors. Don't look at what they say look at what they do, how it's implemented and the reaction to it.

 

[Hussar]

I'm saying I understand the fear not if it's justified or rational and we will have to wait and see.

I don't play D&D online care factor 0 one way or another but I'm not nitpicking or arguing over someone's objective feelings.

Perception is reality in this situation and no one knows enough to conclusively be right one way or another.

Chocolate, vanilla!!! Who cares go sit in the corner.

The meeting was just hype for the investors. Don't look at what they say look at what they do, how it's implemented and the reaction to it.

Yeah, I'm not quite so willing as that to give equal weight to arguments just because of someone's "feelings". Sure, it's possible, but, then again, so are a lot of things. But, people are basically just making stuff up without actually having any reason other than comparisons to completely different products - video games and MMO's - or mostly because folks have an axe to grind with WOtC or corporations in general.

I fear that's not justified or rational is something to be ignored. Perception is not reality. We've had more than enough of that crap in the past. I'm just really, really tired of people making these grandiose claims about how WotC is going to screw us all over and how the hobby is destined to failure. Would it kill people to be just a tiny bit positive, just for five minutes?

Ten years ago, all we heard was how WotC's publication schedule of 3 books per year was going to destroy the hobby. Then it was how WotC was ignoring fans and not producing shorter modules and that was going to destroy the hobby. Then it was how bringing out a few books that didn't toe the line and regurgitate the same crap they'd been pushing for years was going to destroy the hobby. Now it's how a VTT is going to result in "micro-transactions" (whatever that actually means) is going to destroy the hobby.

It would be nice if people could just give it a freaking rest. Just once. No wonder WotC absolutely refuses to engage with fans directly any more. No matter what they say, it's nothing but clickbait garbage headlines about how WotC is killing the hobby. I'm just so freaking tired of it.