WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[Micah Sweet]

Some things can't be everything to all players, and this, I believe, is one. Novice players don't have the experience or existing products (like the World Builder's Guide) that you and I already have. They need this kind of support more than we do, so focus on them and grow the hobby.

I don't get why experienced players are so aghast at there being products that cater to new players—especially when most D&D products don't or do a poor job of it.

I just said I want products for both. In the post you quoted.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Dude, I say this with love, but you are the Eeyore of this board. Not everything has to be an extreme or a dark cloud. There is not a bogeyman waiting around every corner.

All you see is 'catering to new players' translating to 'ignoring my needs as a player who grew up playing this game'. The two can co-exist. Especially if you don't treat additions directed at new players as hostile to you.

Again, I asked for products for both. In the post you quoted.

Am I invisible?

 

[Irlo]

There's nothing in the 2E World Builder's Guidebook that strikes me as especially advanced. It's a basic, beginner's book. And there's nothing in it that would benefit from an update to 5e.

I'd love to see a world-building guide in the form of articles taking some deep-dives into various topics - metallurgy, agriculture, disease, early history of real-world science, technology, geology, etc. -- written by knowledgable people for gamers, with inspirational ideas for how those things might change in a fantasy setting. This could be system-agnostic or with side-bars referencing 5e classes, spells, and monsters.

I don't think WotC is the publisher to do that.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Again, I asked for products for both. In the post you quoted.

Am I invisible?

No, you are not. Why do you think the needs of veteran players are not being addressed?

 

[Umbran]

Color me dumb on this, but when it comes to world-building, what is the difference between a new-player and an experienced-player facing product? Aside from more handholding, I fail to see much difference.

Well, that handholding can be a lot. And, there's also a question of the background the reader has at their disposal.

An analogy: If you go to college, Physics 101/102 is taught without assuming the student knows calculus (because they are typically taking Calculus 101/102 in that same semester).

Physics 301/302 often covers the same topics, but expecting the student knows calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. A person on the street can typically understand the textbook for Physics 101. The book for 301 is incomprehensible without the math background.

The 101 level course can be seen as telling you, in not much over layman's terms, what is happening. The 301 level course gets into the fundamentals of why it happens, and gives you tools to handle far more complex scenarios.

Edit to add: So, to bring that around to gaming - a beginning worldbuilder's book would probably be "here's a bunch of stuff you could consider doing". A book for a 20-year worldbuilding veteran might be more like, "How to make publishing quality worlds"...

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Well, that handholding can be a lot. And, there's also a question of the background the reader has at their disposal.

An analogy: If you go to college, Physics 101/102 is taught without assuming the student knows calculus (because they are typically taking Calculus 101/102 in that same semester).

Physics 301/302 often covers the same topics, but expecting the student knows calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. A person on the street can typically understand the textbook for Physics 101. The book for 301 is incomprehensible without the math background.

The 101 level course can be seen as telling you, in not much over layman's terms, what is happening. The 301 level course gets into the fundamentals of why it happens, and gives you tools to handle far more complex scenarios.

Edit to add: So, to bring that around to gaming - a beginning worldbuilder's book would probably be "here's a bunch of stuff you could consider doing". A book for a 20-year worldbuilding veteran might be more like, "How to make publishing quality worlds"...

This post feels like a weird flex to me. Just my opinion. The point behind it is quite sound though.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, you are not. Why do you think the needs of veteran players are not being addressed?

Because I'm a veteran and, quite frankly, WotC has largely stopped making product I want to buy. Lore is thin or radically changed, PCs are so powerful that traditional resource management is largely meaningless, rules modules get progressively simpler, and there are absolutely zero deep dives into any subject.

It's getting so I'm having a hard time seeing any support for experienced players from WotC at all.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Because I'm a veteran and, quite frankly, WotC has largely stopped making product I want to buy. Lore is thin or radically changed, PCs are so powerful that traditional resource management is largely meaningless, rules modules get progressively simpler, and there are absolutely zero deep dives into any subject.

It's getting so I'm having a hard time seeing any support for experienced players from WotC at all.

I was flipping through the 5E Eberron setting yesterday (2019 release). I would call that an extremely immersive setting, very well done. Unlike that Spelljammer release, which lends credence to your point. The zero deep dives, I don't like either.

I don't buy the PC being powerful thing. Is it the saves every round that gets to you? Or some other mechanic? I started playing in 1982. The level drain, save or die spells... not fun. Straight up terrible design in my opinion. If that type of play is what you mean by PCs being at an appropriate level of power, I'm not on board. Removing those types of mechanics is not the same as making PCs overly powerful; all it means is removing a fun-sucking mechanic out of the game.

 

[Remathilis]

Because I'm a veteran and, quite frankly, WotC has largely stopped making product I want to buy. Lore is thin or radically changed, PCs are so powerful that traditional resource management is largely meaningless, rules modules get progressively simpler, and there are absolutely zero deep dives into any subject.

It's getting so I'm having a hard time seeing any support for experienced players from WotC at all.

Our group of 8th level PCs got tpk'd by a young gold dragon. The invincibility of 5e PCs is a little overstated.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Our group of 8th level PCs got tpk'd by a young gold dragon. The invincibility of 5e PCs is a little overstated.

Everyone has a counterexample.