D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[FlyingChihuahua]

Because DMs are the ones expecting (and, in some cases, outright demanding) respect, trust, and authority.

yet, if I ask them to DM, I get excuses.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

yet, if I ask them to DM, I get excuses.

You're making a complete nonsequitur here. They aren't the ones asking for authority. You are. That's a world of difference.

This is like someone asking to be chairman of the board, or an appointed official in a government, or whatever other position-of-authority you might ask for, and them somehow thinking they shouldn't get any more scrutiny than a bloke on the street. "Well then, why don't YOU take the position if you're going to question me?!" Because I don't want it and you do. That's the difference. It isn't complicated.

You cannot demand respect. It doesn't work that way. You can acquire it in various ways, but you cannot just expect it. That's an almost guaranteed trip to not being respected.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

I think it’s because most of us have had That DM, and the memory stays with you.

On the other hand, I suspect most of us either don’t plan on betraying the Patron or would have a conversation with the dm long before it actually happens in game.

I've also had That Player pull these kind of things on me before.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

You're making a complete nonsequitur here. They aren't the ones asking for authority. You are. That's a world of difference.

This is like someone asking to be chairman of the board, or an appointed official in a government, or whatever other position-of-authority you might ask for, and them somehow thinking they shouldn't get any more scrutiny than a bloke on the street. "Well then, why don't YOU take the position if you're going to question me?!" Because I don't want it and you do. That's the difference. It isn't complicated.

well it's more like being forced to be it because nobody else wants to do it.

People don't choose to be Forever DM's

 

[EzekielRaiden]

well it's more like being forced to be it because nobody else wants to do it.

People don't choose to be Forever DM's

Sure they do. There's a very simple answer.

"Sorry, guys, I'm not up for running something right now. Maybe another time." (Note: only add that second sentence if you actually would be willing to run another time. If you don't know if, let alone when, you might want to run again? Don't say that. Don't set up an expectation that might not get fulfilled. That way leads to frustration for everyone involved.)

Nobody's putting a gun to your head. Nobody can demand of you this effort. If they try, well, they're not exactly being great friends, are they? In fact, I would call that...ooh, where did I put my dictionary...

Oh, that's right, I defined it above. Coercive.

A coercive player isn't welcome at my table, and I wouldn't want to game with them even as a player unless I had extremely good reasons to think that they've changed their ways.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Oh, that's right, I defined it above. Coercive.

A coercive player isn't welcome at my table, and I wouldn't want to game with them even as a player unless I had extremely good reasons to think that they've changed their ways.

That's assuming that the other players wouldn't side with the person being coercive.

And honestly, why wouldn't the players want to side with the player who is just trying to make them just a teeny bit more powerful against the DM?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That's assuming that the other players wouldn't side with the person being coercive.

I wouldn't. Being coercive is unacceptable to me. Doesn't matter what the goal of the coercion is.

And honestly, why wouldn't the players want to side with the player who is just trying to make them just a teeny bit more powerful against the DM?

....because it's morally unacceptable. Why else?

 

[Mort]

That's assuming that the other players wouldn't side with the person being coercive.

And honestly, why wouldn't the players want to side with the player who is just trying to make them just a teeny bit more powerful against the DM?

I don't know about you, but I game to have fun.

I would never be part of a group, player or DM, with such bullying powerplay dynamics!

In 35 years of gaming, I've only seen such antics once, and I fled the group FAST!

 

[ECMO3]

Hypothetical here DM says that.

It's kinda clear what they mean what's not clear is where they draw the line.

For me I don't ban it atm only banned things are any race that flies and the Twilight cleric. Shepard druid might join that list.

In session 0 I do say Powergaming is not required. If you watch tier lists I prefer you don't use F or S tier stuff just don't abuse it.

I have vetoed one player with rolled stats and wanted a paladin/hexblade (with natural 20 stats).

So yeah if I see a Gloomstalker ranger rock on up with sharpshooter and wood elf I can more or less guess what's gonna happen but there's other ways to deal with it.

So powergaming typically involves making combat oriented decisions that are narrow in focus.

I find this particularly prevalent on martials - either PAM/Sentinel/GWM or Sharpshooter/CBE.

The key to countering these is to not to say "no powergaming", but rather to run a game that does not reward that behavior.

Make sure your magic weapons are all thrown weapons or 1-handed melee weapons.

That takes care of the martials. The casters are more difficult, but a powergamer is typically going to want to get combat spells, so use encounters where those spells are useless and do not afford the oppotunity to long rest and change them out.

 

[gnarlygninja]

That's assuming that the other players wouldn't side with the person being coercive.

And honestly, why wouldn't the players want to side with the player who is just trying to make them just a teeny bit more powerful against the DM?

I was onboard with the idea that people are a lot faster to cry "That DM" than they are "That Player" but this is a pretty alien train of thought to me, and I'm usually told whenever I talk about my groups that I've had very bad luck with players.