D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Celebrim]

Not every game needs this level of detail. It's just not the main focus of play.

Maybe, but if that's true then the game also probably doesn't need gear at all, probably because gear has little or no bearing on the process of resolution. I play Nar/Indy style games as well. I don't only play games that lend themselves to high sim granular processes of play.

The incoherency here is a player insisting that his gloves are so important that they ought to have an influence on the process of resolution, but they are also not important enough to list on the character sheet.

 

[Celebrim]

Well here the "plausible ruling" was the GM telling the player mid game what specific articles of clothing they were wearing or not and essentially filling in what I would normally consider a player choice detail.

I find it perfectly reasonable for a player to say the DM's assumptions upon which they made the "ruling" in that situation clash with their own.

Even if this is true, the player's unstated assumptions aren't enough to justify a retcon in this situation. Moreover, in this specific case it appears that the players assumptions - and not the GM's assumptions - by the rules are wrong. Sure, maybe those are bad rules. Maybe 5e needs a better equipment list and more granular descriptions of equipment. But that's rather beside the point. That's an after the session let's fix the rules sort of thing. Not a get out of consequences free card.

 

[iserith]

Maybe, but if that's true then the game also probably doesn't need gear at all, probably because gear has little or no bearing on the process of resolution. I play Nar/Indy style games as well. I don't only play games that lend themselves to high sim granular processes of play.

The incoherency here is a player insisting that his gloves are so important that they ought to have an influence on the process of resolution, but they are also not important enough to list on the character sheet.

I don't think it needs to be all or nothing, and Dungeon World demonstrates this pretty well. A player has an idea, but needs a piece of equipment to be able to attempt it, so they pull it out of their adventurer's gear and mark off a use. Too little too late in the situation under discussion though and, if this is DW and not D&D, we're probably making a Defy Danger move. Once resolved we could imagine the player, if their character lived, to decide they want to douse the chest in wine to wash off the poison, and grab a full wineskin out of their pack.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sure but there's a big difference between the two pics & it's not the presence of gloves. One of them is military EoD, the other looks like someone with a police union rep to get him gloves It may very well be that gloves are not part of the standard EoD equipment loadout.

Oh for god's sake dude.

Or how about the US Military themselves: PEO Soldier | Portfolio - PM SSV - Advanced Bomb Suit

Do I really need to find a bunch of images, or are you willing to not make up weird objections? Because I can find more images.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The incoherency here is a player insisting that his gloves are so important that they ought to have an influence on the process of resolution, but they are also not important enough to list on the character sheet.

I feel like the larger incoherency is the instant distrust of the player because they (reasonably) thought that there were gloves in the traveler's clothing that would prevent exposed skin contact.

Which went on through to the poison ignoring barriers -- which would be indicative of many real contact poisons--except it would have eaten through the chest too.

 

[Lanefan]

Cold weather clothing and riding clothing don't exist. They're not on the equipment list.

We've got:

Clothes, common
Clothes, costume
Clothes, fine
Clothes, travellers

Are things like cloaks, parkas, boots, etc. listed separately? If no, that's an even bigger hole than not listing gloves; in that it's assumed everyone in the setting freezes in the winter.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Cold Weather Clothing is there, but it's behind a Paywall for Rime of the Frost Maiden.

Apparently it doens't include gloves either. But can include a skirt, just in case you want frozen legs.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Are things like cloaks, parkas, boots, etc. listed separately? If no, that's an even bigger hole than not listing gloves; in that it's assumed everyone in the setting freezes in the winter.

Cloaks and boots are listed in the clothing noted. Other clothing is not.

No clothing is sold separately 5E.

I'm looking at the PHB, btw. Cold Weather Clothing is not in the PHB.

 

[Alzrius]

I'm all about player agency, but the player's agency over what came before ends once something happens after. Once the consequence is known, it's simply too late for the player to retcon anything that could change that consequence...with the exception being cases where the DM has made a clear and obvious error.

I don't disagree; I just think that the idea of "thou shalt not violate the player's agency" as a "commandment" is overstated (and uses a definition of "violates agency" that is at odds with how I and others understand it). In that regard, there are times and places where the idea of "the player controls (every aspect of) their character" is supposed to be infringed on by the DM. This includes areas where aspects of the character are undefined, and the PC wants to define them in a way that is favorable to them when an ambiguity arises (which, as you alluded to, is often when something has already happened...or in some cases, is in the process of happening).

Alignment is largely defined by actions; meaning that while you-as-player can write "Lawful Good" on your character sheet in big neon letters if you want, if your actions tend to generally be chaotic and not-good then an alignment check e.g. via someone casting Know Alignment will reflect that.

I don't disagree, but even leaving aside instances of disagreement with regard to what actions constitute/violate various alignments, there's the simple fact of the matter that the DM is telling a player that what's on their character sheet is wrong. Surely that can be identified as "violates player agency."

 

[iserith]

Cold Weather Clothing is there, but it's behind a Paywall for Rime of the Frost Maiden.

Apparently it doens't include gloves either. But can include a skirt, just in case you want frozen legs.

Cold weather clothing from RotF: "This outfit consists of a heavy fur coat or cloak over layers of wool clothing, as well as a fur-lined hat or hood, goggles, and fur-lined leather boots and gloves. As long as cold weather clothing remains dry, its wearer automatically succeeds on saving throws against the effects of extreme cold."

You may be looking at the cold weather outfit from D&D 3e which doesn't contain gloves for reasons that will forever remain a mystery.