D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Lanefan]

I disagree. No damage roll, no retcon, as nothing is being rewritten in the fiction. I agree that retcons are not part of the player role, and shield isn't one.

It retcons the result of the die roll, or tries to. What was declared as a hit becomes a miss. In the fiction, this equates to taking an attack that has already connected and rolling it back to before the foe's swing began, such that the spell can be cast and the magical shield have time to interpose itself.

For this to not be a retcon the player would have to make the decision whether to cast Shield before knowing whether the attack hit or missed.

Broader issue: time only flows one way.

 

[Lanefan]

So you, as DM, are stepping in to help the player save their character by describing what the character does on successful save?

And if you (or the player) didn't describe the character "dodging behind a pillar", you'd assess full damage on a successful save?

I think he's saying that a character who didn't dodge wouldn't even get a save; and further that a) the assumption is that the character does dodge if it can and b) the DM can flavour in how that dodge looks in the fiction if the player does not.

Seems fine to me.

 

[Bill Zebub]

All I know is that I've already made my next character token:

View attachment 270779

“But you didn’t write ‘gloves’ on your character sheet, let alone describe them, and your backstory says nothing about gloves, so let’s see that saving throw.”

 

[Bill Zebub]

Broader issue: time only flows one way.

“Actually….”

 

[Lanefan]

“But you didn’t write ‘gloves’ on your character sheet, let alone describe them, and your backstory says nothing about gloves, so let’s see that saving throw.”

Player's winning argument: "That picture is part of my backstory."

(though as DM I'd still want to see "gloves" written somewhere on the character sheet, if only for completeness...)

 

[Mort]

“But you didn’t write ‘gloves’ on your character sheet, let alone describe them, and your backstory says nothing about gloves, so let’s see that saving throw.”

1. The problem is the player (says) he thought the traveler's outfit (which WAS on his sheet) included gloves. It doesn't but that could, very well be a good faith mistake, especially for a new player.

2. Personally, I don't want the backstory to be some kind of catchall. I want it to be a quick blurb that launches the character forward and allows his actual story to be developed in play. Certainly, wouldn't want it SO detailed that gloves are a factor.

 

[Micah Sweet]

1. The problem is the player (says) he thought the traveler's outfit (which WAS on his sheet) included gloves. It doesn't but that could, very well be a goo faith mistake, especially for a new player.

2. Personally, I don't want the backstory to be some kind of catchall. I want it to be a quick blurb that launches the character forward and allows his actual story to be developed in play. Certainly wouldn't want it SO detailed that gloves are a factor.

But the extent of a PC's backstory is of course up to the player, and not you as the DM.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"Roll a Fort Save. You never said your character had skin."

 

[iserith]

It retcons the result of the die roll, or tries to. What was declared as a hit becomes a miss. In the fiction, this equates to taking an attack that has already connected and rolling it back to before the foe's swing began, such that the spell can be cast and the magical shield have time to interpose itself.

For this to not be a retcon the player would have to make the decision whether to cast Shield before knowing whether the attack hit or missed.

Broader issue: time only flows one way.

A retcon revises fiction. The attack hasn't had any effect until damage is rolled or some other effect is applied. Shield stops it before that happens, so the fiction is not revised. "The attack bounces off the shielding effect," not "the sword hits you, then time reverses and now it doesn't." You're free to not like the spell, but let's not call it something it's not.

 

[Mort]

Double post